I got an interesting article from member (anyone who writes me is a member!) Mike J. this morning. Attached was a link to a Veterans legal assistance site talking about certain sites in Thailand and the usage of AO there.
The listed sites were Udorn, Ubon, NKP, Takhli, U-Tapao, Korat and Don Muang. Well, what the hey. Most would think that kind of shoots the moon because that is all the bases there were. Wrong. Most do not know the network of spook sites that were spread all over the country. We had operating locations in Chiang Mai, Phitsanolouk, Lampang , Nam Phong (Kan Kaen) and Ramasun to name just a few. I’m sure there were others even I didn’t hear about.
Another thing that disturbs me is that the thrust of the article was entirely towards Security Police squadrons and their duties on the base perimeters. I’m sure many of you remember arriving in country and being told you were going to be put on “Augmentation duty”. This was a one month assignment with full combat gear to defend the perimeter. It was twelve hours on and twelve off with one day a week reprieve to pai teo (seek pleasure).Due to the fact that many bases were extremely understaffed, the Air Police couldn’t handle the perimeter duties. We didn’t trust the Thai Army that were assigned because they could be bribed and also had a propensity to sleep on duty at night.
What the article does not discuss is the duties of AFSC 362X1 and 362X4. These codes are for Cable Splicer/Maintenance and Telephone installer/Maintenance. Both involved spending nearly every waking moment outside repairing or installing cable or telephones. In the case of the latter, there was a lot of perimeter repair work for the telephone installers. I know because that was my primary AFSC. Because we were so understaffed, I got away without pulling Augmentation, but the trade off was the excessive amount of time spent in areas that had been sprayed.
Most people who have never been to that part of the world have no idea how rapidly vegetation grows. A jungle can spring up in six months after clearing it. Within two years you would have no idea there had been any activity there. The same was true on the perimeter. We had ten foot tall cyclone fences topped with concertina wire. An area 50 feet wide on both sides of the fence was completely denuded of vegetation for a better field of fire. I can honestly say I never saw it sprayed at Udorn or Chiang Mai, but the evidence was constantly there. I did watch the Hmong kids spread it up at 20 Alternate (Long Tieng) with bleach bottle scoops right out of the barrel. This was undiluted and extremely caustic. The children just went down to the creek and jumped in to wash it off their bodies and clothes.That creek was also their drinking water supply.
For any of you assigned to the following Communications squadrons who had outside plant duties as Cable splicers or telephone installers, I would seriously consider filing a claim for AO if you suffer any of the diseases associated with it and listed in 38 CFR §3.309(e) http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/38/3/309
Don Muang RTAFB— Bangkok (Krung Taep)
Nam Phong (Kon Kaen)—Marine Logistics Support Group Delta
Korat RTAFB—-1998th Comm. Sqadron
Takhli RTAFB—- 1980th Comm. Squadron
U-Tapao Royal Thai Navy Airfield—-1985th Comm. Squadron
Nakhon Phanom RTAFB (NKP)—- 1987th Comm. Squadron [to include Pakse (Lima-11) across the Mekong river in Laos.]
Udorn RTAFB—- 1974th Comm. Group; 1973 Comm. Squadron; [to include up-country personnel assigned to Lima Site-20 Alternate (Long Tieng) and Lima-54 (Luang Prabang); TRC-103 area
Ubon RTAFB—- 1982nd Comm. Squadron
Operating Location B, 1980th Comm. Squadron (Phitsanulok MRC-98 Tropo Scatter site)
Operating Location C, 1980th Comm. Squadron (Chiang Mai Airport); aka O/L-C, 1973rd Comm. Sq.; aka O/L-E, 1974th Comm. Group; Detachment B, 7th Radio Research Field Station; Detachment 415, USAF HQ Command.
Kho Kha (Lampang) —17th Space Surveillance Squadron Radar Station
Camp Ramasun—– 7th Radio Research Field Station
1st MOB (1st Mobile Communications Group) deployments to any of these locations
As I mentioned, this represents most of the bases or small operating locations I remember. I do know there were more but many required a higher security clearance than I had to even be aware of them. Most have been declassified for more than 15 years now, so if any of you are aware of ones I missed, please feel free to contribute. If you know someone who fits this profile please be sure to tell them to get tested for liver function tests and uroporphyrins in the urine. There is also a blood test for PCT now as well. If they have Diabetes Mellitus Type 2, they may be eligible for a presumptive exposure to AO.
P.S. Here’s another site that will provide a wealth of cut and paste for your AO Thailand claim. Something else to consider is that they fought us tooth and nail on this for twenty or more years and refused to entertain the idea that one drop of AO fell outside RVN. The cracks in the wall started and now we have this. First it will be the MPs. I suspect the commo guys will get a piece of it next. Then? Well, if you were on base and the wind was blowing, what do you think? We’re not talking about some impossibility like getting clap from a toilet seat or Immaculate Conception. Look at the base perimeter on the northwest side at Udorn. Our barracks and hootches were less the 60 feet from the fence. There was nothing growing in between-period. A perimeter road in laterite and red clay dirt then the fence.
And added 13 Sept. 2013 is this . An AF guy who sprayed the crap by hand at Udorn wins his case. Read this closely. He admits he sprayed it around common areas like the barracks. We figured that much but here’s the verbal proof. VA says we cannot use BVA decisions to support our claims as they are too individualized and represent the Vet involved but you can cite to it to have a judge take “judicial notice of it”.
Read this one as it is far newer and has some World Airways data for us to look at. Remember, to get to Thailand for most of us required going to Tan Son Nhut and then to Bangkok before we dispersed to duty assignments.
Also, here’s the latest claim that says the same thing at the CAVC. His widow won on the question. Now she needs to scare up the World Airways information pertinent to her husband.
Here’s a map of Udorn RTAFB with the new 3-story barns 50 feet away from the fence and 20 feet from the perimeter road.
I am working with a Veteran who was in Korat from 12/1973-6/1974 and again in 12/1974-6/1975. The first time he was there he was with the 354th as a weapon mechanic who was a member of a load crew that loaded A-7D’s armament systems. The second time he was there he was an airborne weapon mech for A-4620. We put a claim in with the VA for Type II Diabetes due to his AO exposure. In his 4138 he explained how he remembered swimming in the drainage ditch by the hanger and flight line. He also mentioned how the water had a sheen on it while swimming. His claim hasn’t been denied yet, but I am looking for any AO evidence I can to help improve his AO exposure. If anyone has pictures, or can remember the drainage ditch, or just has any info about the base they would like to share, please reach out to me. I have been searching google like asknod had mentioned and have been searching other discussion threads, but anything would help and be greatly appreciative. Look forward to hearing from you guys.
Remember, sir. A photograph doesn’t show Agent Orange-or any herbicide for that matter. It doesn’t help to submit these or pictures of your hootch next to the fence. The oily sheen might have been spilled JP-4. Sometimes they dumped it in the ditches to kill mosquitos. You have to have an AFSC that shows you were outside in the bomb dump, at the arm/dearm station at the end of the runways or something similar. It had to be near-daily exposure. Finally, you need an IMO from a doctor saying the AO caused the Parkinson’s/DM II/prostate.
Stan Howard, Takhli 1973-74 2083 CS RAPCON, SP with K9s used our facility to cool. Perimeter was near facility.. Diagnosed with Parkinson’s in 2016. Working package. Any help appreciated., especially from PD.
Good morning Col Howard, I was not stationed at Takhli I was stationed at Udorn 71 -72 so I am not much use for information about Takhli however I was diagnosed with Parkinson’s May 7, 2013 and I was a SP at Udorn. I am rated 100% disability. I would be happy to answer any questions you might have about Parkinson’s and my journey to 100% with the VA if I can.
Would ASKNOD please give Col Howard my E-mail address Thanks
Please email me at firstname.lastname@example.org. Your email tells me I have to jump through some hoops to talk to you.
Ray Parker – Mr Graham has the recipe. If you have questions contact him. It is a battle and all need to keep fighting. VA wants us to go away. The generation working the claims now were never in Thailand or Nam.
Contact me if you like – email@example.com
Don’t ever give up – I think that is a quote!!!
Just starting to look into Agent Orange (excuse me, “herbicides”) and noticed the bias towards SPs, too. In 1974-75 I was 1987 Com (Ground Radio) and worked all over the base, especially while maintaining the intruder detection systems between the outer and inner wires. This meant diffing and working in mud and ground water, even splicing a cable with a flashlight in my teeth and a poncho over me in the rain because the sensor cable wasn’t cable maintenance’s responsibility.
And yes, I have Type 2 diabetes (not common in my family).
In my time there, June 67 to June 72, I too worked in a lot of mud. So did all the locals. The rice fields especially to the east were flooded by water from the base. My wife, a Thai national, has Type II diabetes, Sjorgren’s, Stage 4 kidney failure, neuropathy, and post-herpetic shingles pain. I just was given 10 percent for urinary problems that started within a year of leaving NKP, 20 percent in each of my four extremities for neuropathy, 30 percent for Parkinson’s, and affirmation of my initial 10 percent for ischemic heart, all identified as Agent Orange related. I also just had a triple bypass and am waiting for a decision on that. Agent Orange affected a lot more than anyone is willing to admit.
We just had a reunion for NKP vets in Ohio a couple weeks ago and AO was of major interest to everyone. Some were already diagnosed and had from 10 to 100% disabilities, diabetics were about half of the 85 vets attending. And this was for a base that supposedly didn’t have much spraying done and nothing allowed outside the fence by Thailand. I hate to think of the impact on the locals we left behind.
Yeah from what I have read and through diagrams I have obtained (google Agent Orange Korat Thailand) they did spray the perimeter of the base I was also there from 73-74 I was a 462 Weapons Mechanic at the perimeter every day. I also have diabetes type 2 which was denied! Although since the cancer (Head & Neck Squamish Cell Carcinoma) which I have had 3 times the shit kept coming back I lost 80 pounds which has settled the diabetes and due to swallowing issues I am the proud owner of a feeding tube as all my teeth have been damaged from the 2 times I had radiation and of course I am not 100% disabled I’m only 70% (although on paper I’m 100% it’s the way the VA calculates disability) from knees back tinnitus and PTSD but the VA will not assist me with my teeth and they have denied my claim for AO (herbicides) twice with my 3rd appeal pending. Just have to keep fighting the battle GOOD LUCK!!!!
Mike please contact Alex Graham who is the blogger on asknod. He can tell you the right direction to go or even help.
This is Jack Hallick. I served with you in Korat. Sorry to hear of all your medical issues. Would like to chat some time. I am on facebook.
Hello, How is PTSD related to being a 46250. Veterans Affairs has diagnosed me as having PTSD and at the same time denied me my claim. I was stationed at U-Tapao from 1967-1968. Loaded B-52s and worked at the Pre-load which was next to the perimeter line
I do but still do not understand why these denials persist. I began filing my claims for my 5 years at NKP just about the time the VA began accepting claims for security police. I researched all I could and even used the Google satellite image to re-create the base layout. I found documents that stated where the primary spraying of Agent Orange was done. I eventually received my first 10% for my heart in 2017 and since then have been increased for neuropathy and Parkinson’s. I persisted in my claim for peripheral vascular disease (PVD) and was just approved in the last two months. This last approval moved me to 100 percent and back-dated my 100 percent status by four years. My disability ratings came with a lot more cost, that being my wife who was born at NKP and who passed away from several of the gifts from Agent Orange, diabetes II, high blood pressure, kidney failure, and severe pain just over 3.5 years ago.
With the latest PACT Act, filing claims is a lot easier. Every denied claim should be re-filed. With the PACT Act, you no longer have to prove connection through any specialty or specific location on the base you were stationed. I did prove all the connections, and while each of my ratings were not 100 percent each all together they added up to more than 180 percent (calculated by formula to be 100 percent).
Please help bring this history forward for all to see.
My wife died in October 2019 from the complications of all of the diseases she was afflicted but no one can compensate for that. I now also have an outstanding claim in appeal for peripheral vascular disease which was further identified when doctors could not harvest a viable section of vein from three different locations in my left leg. Overall my disability rating is now 160 percent reduced to 90 percent by calculation. My heart rating was increased to 30 percent after my triple bypass recovery.
Fred, from what I am reading you are under rated for Parkinson’s. You get 30% just for the diagnosis. Then they should rate each body system that it effects. If you can still get a DBQ for Parkinson’s on line look at it. It will show you how many things can be rated. I have Parkinson’s and rated at 100%. If you have tremors and rigidity the VA considers that sever neurological disease. Your Dominant side should also be rated higher than your non-dominant side if both sides of your body or effected. The urinary problems along I am sure you ore under rated. That goes by the number of pads a day you use or if you are required to use a appliance (Catheter) it can go up to 60%. Check out the DBQ please I feel pretty sure you are under rated for Parkinson’s unless you are in the very early stages of the disease.
Thank you fort your comments. I am very familiar with the under-rating. I still have an outstanding claim being reviewed for PVD for Agent Orange, one that was denied and identified by the Texas Veteran Commission as denied incorrectly and backed up now by lawyers. The sum of my disability ratings not counting the PVD claim is now 160 percent (overall 80 percent). I have followed closely with several other veterans in claims and know it is almost impossible to get much higher even though I have been unable to work for more than five years. My biggest problem at this time is that I just do not have the energy to do anything more. It took me more than 35 years just to get the first claim approved. I don’t have any more time.
Fred, I totally understand the VA has worn me down also. My first claim was not rated correctly. After a reconsideration it was up to 90% then a NOD brought me to 100%. After reading all your other medical issues I figured if you could get the Parkinson’s to a 100% they should consider you for statutory SMC S. The VA can drag you down. Hang in there and good luck.
Was anyone assigned to a PPIF @ Udorn at end of flight line by the perimeter next to the Weapons Arm & Dis-arm?
i was in the PPIF down by the coke shack from Feb 69 thru Feb 70. I just recently filled a claim for having Parkinson and have had head and neck cancer as well as Graves disease. Do you know of a good photo of the Udorn flight line showing the location of the PPIF?
I just received your confirm e-mail and when I click the confirm follow button I get a message saying web sight cannot be reached? Any solutions?
I was given 10% disability for tinnitus 0% for bilateral hearing loss and denial for skin cancers (melanoma, basal, squamous) denial never said I was not exposed just skin cancer is not on the presumptive list. Funny I found on the web where the VA did award disability for skin cancer after appeal. Contacted The DAV today they will file my appeal for hearing and skin cancer. I’m not getting any young hope I live long enough.
I was stationed at Korat AFB with the 355 Tactical Fighter Squadron from Apr 1973-Apr 1974 my job function (AFC) was a 46250 Weapons Mechanic my duties included electronically functional check of A7D aircraft the loading of guns and munitions and arming of same. The loading process took place on the flight line where the munitions were brought to us from the munitions storage area which is situated near the base perimeter. I often received the munitions from the munitions storage area that were covered in dust had to handle them and load them on the aircraft and when it rained the trailers would often produce a puddle of discolored water from the dust that was on the trailers and munitions I often had to step into these puddles to perform my job function. Once this job was completed I was dispatched to the End of Runway hours before the scheduled take off time to arm the munitions for the day’s mission this often included 6 to 8 aircraft. When the aircraft returned from the day’s mission I would again be dispatched again to the end of the runway to disarm and secure the aircraft prior to them returning to the flight line where I would begin the process all over again. The end of the runway is located at/near the perimeter of the base where the Agent Orange was sprayed and well within the drift line of the Agent Orange sprayed I was often waiting at the perimeter awaiting the arrival of the of the aircraft to both launch and recover specifically where the Agent Orange was sprayed. There is also documentation of where they sprayed around the hooch’s (sleeping quarters) where the spray drift encompasses the area where the hooch I was located in was affected. I have been denied twice by hthe VA stating my claim is I presented my claim to the VA for disability from Agent Orange and diabetes mellitus II I have been denied the reason they gave “your exposure to herbicides cannot be conceded ” this is the only reason they have given. I have 3 letters from my Dr’s stating “it is more likely then not my cancer is a result of exposure to Agent Orange yet still denied I have filled a third claim and my VSO stated it will go to court in from=nt of a lawyer. I am also diagnosed with Diabetes type II and have recent l had a pace maker installed. Any Thoughts on my next move?
As I tell every Vet who comes here Mike, it’s a recipe- just like baking cookies. I’m out of town currently but if you wish, you can contact me at the office next week and I’d be happy to explain it for you. firstname.lastname@example.org
Michael stay after them – me. Graham is now helping me. We are early in the process. But he does have a formula for fighting the fight. I receive nothing at this time. If you would like to talk email at email@example.com
Hire a lawyer who only gets compensated with your claim being approved. After 6 years of fighting VA, I was about to forget about it but decided to hire a lawyer specializing
in VA claims and specifically A/O exposure. Six months later my claim was approved. Best decision I ever made.
Good on ya! My only question is once approved the VA doesn’t always give you the back pay. I had a claim in for my knee and back for an increase was award the increase but denied the back pay. Not sure a lawyer is wanting to go for that?
Mine did. If you want more info, just let me know……
I spent a day on the web and found all the supporting info I could for my claim, I was stationed at Ubon. Supplied this all to the DAV rep who sent it on to the VA for my appeal. Your story sounds just like mine I was a 46250. For the VA to say herbicide was not used in Thailand is BS. My barracks also was right on the perimeter, barracks had vents that could not be shut sent pictures and accounts of upon brothers who stated spraying was done. My appeal was sent in on Jan 28 no word yet. I’m afraid they VA is waiting us out until we are all dead. Good luck Mike —PS went the lawyer route would not take the case claimed they had too much work.
When were you there? Nice to know there are other 462’s were also exposed story I’m sure is the same like to know if others stationed in Thailand were diagnosed what type of cancer did you suffer from hope your in remission at leas!!!? Good Luck on the appeal!!! my VSO told me if I had been a Security Policeman it would be a slam dunk.now tells me the third appeal will be by a judge and not sure if I have to appear or he reviews and decides. I personally want to appear but I’ll wait on what the VSO says I’m told it may take a while? Yeah I’m not to sure about the lawyer route hate giving any money up but if that’s a final resort then I will. I have contacted my congressman although didn’t get much of a response I’m gong to shake that tree again along with a few others. It’s been suggested I I should write and send letters to whom ever I think will listen i.e. congressman, news papers Disabled American Vets…Thanks for responding and again GOOD LUCK!
Mike: I was at Ubon 1/70-1/71 Odd how I have had all three types of skin cancers and they still pop up and none of my parents or siblings have had any type of skin cancers— gee could it be exposure to herbicides—— me thinks so
Sounds like it to me!!!! I had Squamish Cell Carcinoma cancer I had a 4 centimeter tumor located in my left head and neck area. 3 Times just had another Pet-Scan today hell waiting 2 days for the result. Are you getting any compensation for anything else? Where you from?
Mike I get 10% for tinnitus and have also appealed my hearing loss they VA claims it is not sever enough 0% have had a private hearing test audiologist wrote up a report and stated in crowded situations I would have a very difficult time hearing nothing I didn’t know. I have had 2 melanomas removed one from my back- had to remove a good size piece of my back muscle(loss of strength in my back) and a atypical melanoma from my left inside knee 6″ scar. Numerous basal and squamous cell removed latest basal cell on my right check of my face. See the dermatologist every 6 months for a look see. I am in SC about 25 miles north Charleston.
Mike: Was denied a second time for skin cancer this week; the VA stated they needed “evidence” did not say what kind. Called my DAV rep found out the VA wants doctors who can verify your condition is due to herbicide exposure and can supply a writen statement. That is what they mean by evidence. Good luck finding a doctor well versed in herbicide exposure 50 years after the fact. The VA knows we were exposed and has thrown up a brick wall. I’ve pretty much given up it’s a lost cause trying o get the VA too admit anything.
Boy howdy. It almost makes me cry to read this post from John. After spending the last eleven years teaching you folks not only how to win but even writing a book to make sure everyone knows what you need, old John walks right by the logo for my book at the top of my site here and wonders why he needs “evidence” to prove his claim. Hellooooo John. We call it a nexus or an IMO (Independent Medical Opinion). You cannot win without it. VA doctors are not permitted to do this since 2010. You missed the boat on that one.
Sorry I missed the title of your book, but as you stated the VA since 2010 can’t or won’t give a medical opinion so it’s a moot point now. My fault I did not pursue my claim prior to 2010.
John you can still give them hell and whatever.
Don’t give up – what else you have to do?
You called me and I have call you back numerous times.
Contact me. I Can help you. Just won my case. Takhli RTAFB 1967-1968. Took a lot of BS, but stay with it. I can help you if you want . Nothin in it for me to xcept helping a fellow vet
Howard thanks for your offer. I believe what I am lacking in my claim is an IMO from a doctor confirming a link of skin cancers to defoliant.
Just surfing trying to stay ahead of the VA. This message is for either John or Mike I am not sure who needs this information. Second of all it’s just a lead were one might get A doctor to make the agent orange – skin cancer connection. Doing research for my claim I came across a article by Dr. Mark Clemens with MD Anderson. If you search Dr. Mark Clemens agent orange effects on veterans a lot of articles will come up. I have not reached out to this Dr. because I reached 100% with out my skin cancer. I have Parkinson’s. I saved all my research so I can service connect other conditions when my Parkinson’s progress and I need aid and attendance. I hope your claim has been settled by now and you don’t need this information or additional headache and work. Good Luck I was a Security Police 432nd SPS Udorn Thailand 70-71
Thanks for the reply I also found Dr Clemens studies and sent copies to the VA with my claim –no go– denial. Unfortunately I was not security police (weapons loader 408th MMS) so as far as the VA is concerned I was never exposed (what a joke). Sad to say skin cancers still pop up and having removed. Blue water Navy covered like boots on the ground Vietnam vets but we in Thailand no dice. The VA knows they would be opening a can of worms if they covered us Thailand vets. Ignore and we will die –end of problem. Sorry for the rant. I had not thought of contacting Dr Clemens I give it a try if I can find his address
Mike I also was a 46250 at Koran 1973/1974 worked in the gun shop. Herbicide exposure
Has really in lightened me to this point in my life. I have been fighting the VA since 2014
Denied stating no tactical herbicides were used in Thailand?? Call them want they may still had toxins that we were exposed to daily. I have 4 diseases on the list and numerous side effects from each. That 13 different medications just to survive. It is terrible what the VA is doing the the Thailand Veterans. Never give up!
Damn I was a 46250 stationed at Ubon, NKP, U-Tapao
And I have a shit load of stuff jacked up on me,
Tried lawyers but none would take my case just contacted my Senators office see what happens
Just filed a claim with VA through VSO this morning. Have prostate cancer and quad-bypass heart condition. Was stationed with 485th EIS (GEEIA) Cam Ranh Bay 1971 & 483rd EIS KORAT 1971 – 1972. Traveled around by air cand ground to most bases in Thailand as a 30670.
VA is going to give you a ration of shit and tell you if you were not in Vietnam that you are ineligible for the presumptive of herbicide exposure. When they deny you, please contact me here again and I can help you win the claims.
I was stationed at UBON RTAFB Thailand 1971-72 and worked at the 408th MMS Bomb Dump. I recently was diagnosed with Parkinson’s disease, which I believe is service related due to the herbicides being used during my tour of duty there. Has anyone else been diagnosed with PD since having served at UBON?
I was at Udorn and Korat. I have filed a claim back 2010 for tinnitus and PTSD. Denied for both. Then came prostate cancer, diabetes, and neuropathy. Have not been approved for any, all denied. I have to prove I was near the perimeter and subjected to agent orange. I was in 7th ABCCC. and lived on the perimeter and on the flight line daily. Still filing and being persistent. STAY AFTER THEM!
PS. We (Asknod Inc) got Ray Part one- Concession of exposure to herbicides at Udorn and 90% for DM II and peripheral neuropathy yesterday ( 6/19-2019). We’re waiting on the prostate cancer ratings which should come in at 30% and with several secondaries, up to an easy 100%. Like we say… it’s a recipe-just like baking cookies. You can’t substitute baking powder for baking soda or it won’t work. I’ve done this over 1000 times and it’s the same every time. Trust me. I banged my head against the wall from 1989 to 2007 until it dawned on me how to play VA poker.
Thx Ray and I will … I’ll let you know what happens with me too. Ray
FYI, I was awarded 30% compensation recently for my herbicide agent orange claim I filed in June this year. I submitted a justification letter to my claim on August 1 and received my VA letter confirming my award on August 24. Clearly I was impacted by these herbicides at UBON and is why I believe I have Parkinson’s. Good luck to you.
Use this file to get your claims approved for AO that everyone who files for exposure should be using. VA is nopt gonna like it but it is declassified so no sweat.
I was at Ubon jan 70 -71 weapons loader. Trying to file a claim with the VA for recurring skin cancer. I’m trying to find any pictures of the MMS 2 story barracks that were on the perimeter. I have a picture I took of the defoliated area behind the barracks but not one with the barracks and the perimeter
Thanks John Bemiss
Ray have pics and have prostate cancer, neuropathy and type 2 diabetes. My pics are Udorn and Korat, but all bases in Thailand as you know are on the list. Your burden as is mine is to prove my AFSC took me near the flight line and perimeter. I have given the proof but no approval yet.
I know what you mean. The barracks we were in were near the perimeter and I did find they spray in June 1970, so if there was any drift it would get in the barracks s we had open ventilation (windows). Just need to find a picture of the barracks along with my perimeter picture should prove exposure. Was on the flight line 6 days a week 12 hours a day. Did arm/de-arm end of run way duty also.
Good luck on your claim
Unfortunately I don’t have any pics of the hooches we lived in on base. Fortunately, I did have pics of the bomb dump where I worked as a 46150, which clearly showed brown vegetation all over the grounds after being sprayed by herbicides e.g. AO. Which I’m assuming helped my case and the fact that I traveled from the bomb dump to the flight line through the perimeter 12 hrs daily delivering munitions! Keep after the VA, let me know if you have additional questions and best of luck too.
What base were you at in Thailand? I too was a 46150 and delivered to flight line as well as assembly.I was at U-Tapao and also NKP.
I was at UBON 1971-72 & worked 6 miles off base at the munitions bomb dump. When were you in Thailand?
Hi John… Would you have the image of the perimeter you can share with me ? Thanks Jay
Yes I’ll have to dig it out I gave up on the VA and filed all my paper work I have one picture I took and another I got for another guy stationed at Ubon
Ray, I was diagnosed May 7, 2013 with Parkinson’s. My private dr. completed my first DBQ and stated more likely than not caused by agent orange. I was given 80% after NOD 100%. Get a good VSO to be sure they rate you correctly and if you or not seeing a Movement Specialist, please do they can give you a better quality of life. I will be having DBS by the end of the year. Good Luck I call Parkinson’s the gift that keeps on giving. I was not at UBON I was at Udorn 1971-72 432nd Security Police. I just notice the date you posted I am hope you already have your rating and it is 100%. The VA still does not know how to rate Parkinson’s and they are not consistent.
Hi Don, thanks for the reply back. I did get VA acknowledgement and approval of my case for being affected by herbicides while stationed at UBON with a 30% rating last year… for my Parkinson’s. I’m seeing a neurologist, physical therapist and am exercising as much as possible with the goal of not taking any carvodopa/levodopa meds! The side affects are potentially worse than the tremors etc. I hope your doing well. Take care, Ray
Good very early morning Ray, I thought I sent a reply last week but apparently I didn’t do it correctly. At 30% for Parkinson’s you are probably under rated. Look at a DBQ for Parkinson’s it will show you all the different body parts that can be rated. When I filed my NOD they increased my percentage for my dominate side that was rated wrong. I got 50% for upper right, 60% urinary incontinence, 10% for swallowing, 10% lower left 20%upper left. A few more to many to list, but I just wanted to show you how Parkinson’s should be rated. It effects so many body systems. I also get SMC K . Please don’t be afraid of carvodopa/levodopa meds, they are your friend.. I take 1 senemet tablet in the morning, 4 Rytary (extended release carvodopa/levodopa) a day 3 Mirapex and use a inhaled carvodopa/levodopa for off periods. Also will be having DBS (deep brain strimulation) before the end of the year. Therapy and exercising is one of the best thing for Parkinson’s but you will know when it is time to start the meds. they can give you a better quality of life. I would like to private e-mail you are speak with you because Parkinson’ like I like to call it is the Gift that keeps on giving. Don’t let pride stop you from using a cane, walker or wheelchair they will help save energy . Fatigue is a big issue for me and falling. I am not familiar with this site so if there is a way to private message each other let me know. I have been dealing with this for a few years and have great doctors none of which are VA Doctors. Good Luck and I hope I am not overstepping with some of my comments.
If you two gentlemen wish to talk to one another, I would be happy to provide you with each others’ emails to maintain your privacy.
Yes, please provide Don P. my email address privately.
Ray T Hill III Retired – Enjoying Life 😎 “Retirement is underrated”! USAF Viet Nam Veteran & member of VNVDV Sent from my iPad… Please excuse any typos.
It would help both of you to contact Alex Graham (non-attorney practitioner 39029) for some info. After dealing with this for 10 years he got me some results.
He also is the man that created ASKNOD.
I will be glad to correspond with you both for details.
We were just denied by the VA for IPF due to AO. 1)It’s not on the presumptive list and 2) there’s no proof that he did Auggie Doggie duty or line duty while he was in Ubon. My thought is, who DIDN’T do it??
have filed a claim 7 yrs ago. I hope to see you supporting S. Bill 2105. I would also like you to encourage the Texas Congressmen to support H.R. 4843.
I hope this can speed up the claim process.
I have had my claim deferred and denied because they say I was not on a base that had been sprayed with spectracides that have caused me to have prostrate cancer and numerous other ailments. All of the bases (udorn and Korat) I was stationed are now on the list.
Yet I have to know prove my AFSC (intell) brought me in contact with Agent Orange or what ever.
HELP by supporting these bills if nothing else can be done.
Raymond L Parker, SSgt E-4
Service dates 70-71.
The following information was found while doing research on AO exposure at NKP, 1966-69. Some of the data may be repetitive from other sites.
– UC-123K Ranch Hand aircraft assigned to 609th Air Commando Squadron (redesignated 609th Special Operations Squadron August 1, 1968). UC-123K Provider was a C-123B with two underwing J85 booster engines and larger wheels. Each aircraft had a 1,000 gallon herbicide tank, feeding to dispersal spray booms mounted under each wing and the tail. Spray missions were flown at 130 knots and as low as possible, leaving a herbicide path more than eighty yards wide and up to ten miles long.
– Aircraft (UC-123K and helicopter with spray nozzles) parked on flightline across from Red Horse compound (according to Red Horse member)
– Tactical Herbicides (AO) were authorized by Embassy in March 1966 for use on the perimeter and on base. U. S. Army Field Manual 3-3, Tactical Employment of Herbicides’, December 1971 states herbicides will air drift 500 meters. The entire Air Base was less than one kilometer wide.
– AO used extensively around Task Force Alpha compound located NE corner of base. Many off-duty airmen worked for contractor (Parsons, INC) constructing earth filled ARMCO corrugated steel revetment that surrounded compound.
Okay, sir. Let’s analyze your comments the way the VA does.
Aircraft (UC-123K and helicopter with spray nozzles) parked on flightline across from Red Horse compound (according to Red Horse member)
I guess you can see the problem. If the VA, through JSCRUR, cannot confirm the 123’s were there (or any Hueys) then that is the end of the subject. Lay testimony, in and of itself does not qualify as evidence. Claiming that some unidentified Red Horse member stated it as fact is called “hearsay”. Watch Judge Judy to understand this concept.
Tactical herbicides are not listed under the rainbow herbicides (Blue, Green, White, Pink and Orange and Purple).
Yes, tactical or presumptive herbicides will drift 500 meters with prevailing wind If- IF- sprayed from altitude at 130 knots. This would not hold true for NKP because the “tactical” herbicides were hand or truck-sprayed at ground level-not dispersed from altitude.
If you can show me a military document that definitively states that AO was sprayed at NKP, I’ll start filing these claims in a hearbeat for you guys. The problem is that the King of Thailand feared for the rice crops and didn’t want to see a repeat of what was happening up country in Laos where we destroyed their crops. Thus the fiction that “tactical” herbicides were employed versus true rainbow presumptives. Nowadays we call that plausible denial. Call it a tactical weedkiller instead of a defoliant and it falls within the regulation. We know they used AO and a lot of A Blue. Hell I saw the AO and AB barrels in the bomb dump at Long Tieng in 1970. No one argues that. It’s finding the smoking gun government document that says it. To date, there is none.
Remember also that they (VA) like to use the metric of being in the perimeter via your AFSC/MOS. Every one of us who went off-base walked or drove through the perimeter for a year. I’d say that puts you smack dab “in the perimeter” numerous times- surely enough to qualify for exposure. This is a brand new argument no one yet has brought to appeal. I voiced this point on the URG website several times. To my knowledge, no one has yet used it.
Getting SC for AO in Thailand is a word game with VA. I had no problem claiming it for Laos. They never even whimpered or attempted to say I wasn’t exposed. The way to a win is still an independent medical opinion from a private doctor. Period. Game. Set. Match.
Gotcha! I’m new at this & am learning the pitfalls. Obviously, I need to take more time & read the archived materials. The UC-123K is factual (unit histories), the chopper “hearsay” as I have nothing but anecdotal evidence. Time to go back to work. Thanks for taking the time to address my comments.
I had a private doctor to tel me my husband had ALL EVIDENCE of A O…and VA said it also. . .but was still denied…and I’m still fighting. ..
Try reading the document identified as Project CHECKO Base Defense in Thailand SE Asia report declassified from Secret. It describes the aerial spraying around NKP along the perimeter. The drift from spraying covered nearly 60 percent of the base populated areas. That is not counting the compounds that were sprayed throughout the base by hand.
I am looking for any information concerning agent orange exposure at Nakhon Phanom RTAFB, Thailand, 1969-1969. I was assigned to Task Force Alpha and trying to fight the VA over associated diseases associated with possible exposure.
I don’t know if it was there in 69 but by 1970 there was the “Aderholt trail” connecting the perimeter hootch area to TFA. It was purported that the jungle growth around the trail was curtailed by used of AO. By 72, the trail was a sidewalk leading through growth areas connecting to TFA and was used by pedestrians and bicyclists (including) myself to get to/from work in TFA. If you lived in a hootch within 500m of the perimeter, you were within the wind blown distance of AO per an Army manual.
Heinie’s son Bob and I went to school together in Goldsboro back in 62-64. We were even in the same confirmation class at St. Mark’s in 63. Small world. Hunter safety course together at Seymour Johnson Rod and Gun Club. My dad bird hunted with Heinie back then before he set up shop at Eglin in ’65
Heinie Aderholt was widely respected at NKP and within the Thailand, Laos, Cambodia Brotherhood on whose website you can find some good photos of NKP.
Does that surprise anyone. No money!
The three D’s
I am looking for someone that would know where they set up the first ball field on U-Tapao in 1966.
My husband played ball and talked about the dirt filling his lungs and the water made it feel like
he was full of mud. I am filing for widows pension since he died of Lung Cancer in 2012. He was stationed at U-Tapao Aug 1966 thru Sept 1967. I also need some one to state they knew AOI was sprayed at that time. He was in Comm Sq. and they tell me his code of service did not put him
on the perimeter although I know from his letters he went thru the main gate to go to different places and swam in the sea right outside the base. Any help will be appreciated.
Visit my http://www.herbicidesinthailand.info website for Unit History Reports for U-Tapao. After reviewing you can email at firstname.lastname@example.org to discuss. I was there from Sep 71 to Sep 72. You mention some letters and they might help in your claim if you by chance still have them. Good Luck and Never Give Up!
Regarding the 362X1 and 362X4 career fields at NKP, as Quality Control NCO from Jan 1968 to Jun 1972 I monitored the work of the telephone cable and telephone installer work centers among others. All these airmen not only installed aerial and buried cables and telephone drops and instruments, they had to dig by hand all locations to install and repair buried cables. Very seldom was any digging equipment used because there usually was none available. Some projects such as the perimeter sensor project brought in equipment, but those were few. Cables and instruments were installed in every building, outpost, and tower on the base, including the Army quarters located near the SE perimeter. I participated in a few of the major cable repairs and monitored all major repairs and large cable installations.
Yeah. Remember the !st Mob (GEEIA) taking a weekend off at Udorn about mid-August to celebrate their 30th anniversary of existence and the 06 paper insulated cable pit filled up with water when the mudhog broke down? AirAm was dead in the water for a week. So was TRC-103. We strung field wire across the perimeter to them for a few hotlines. GEEIA Greatest Electrical Engineers In Asia. Everything was flooded. We had to take a Deuce 1/2 @ 1700 to the Charoen hotel in town.
So I just got off the phone with the veteran I’m working with, and he said it wold be ok if I mentioned his name on here. His name is Leonard Ebacher 36154 Cable splicer, was in SEA around 64-67, often went on jobs with the 2876rd GEEIA SQ, but was with the 2863rd GEEIA Sq. What I would need to help his claim before we submit it, is a few buddy statement that are signed and dated, attesting to the job(S) GEEIA was responsible for while TDY in S.E.A, and how the members were often working on the parameters of the bases in Thailand. Another key to include would be Agent Orange exposure as well. Thank you so much for the help. My work email is BobianSM@jacksoncounty.org.
Was at Nam phong may 1972 usn seabee mcb-5 with marines built the “Rose Garden”. US special forces there, Thai special forces there, we were told it was a secret base. I have multiple illnesses Parkinson etc..Help!!!
Try contacting William Rhodes at email@example.com to discuss Rose Garden.
The “Veterans and Agent Orange 2014” report is available at: http://www.nationalacademies.org/hmd/Reports/2016/Veterans-and-Agent-Orange-Update-2014.aspx
May want to request Agent Orange Registry Exam if you have not already done so.
https://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/publications/agent-orange/agent-orange-summer-2017/index.asp – VA Agent Orange newsletter
https://www.va.gov/opa/pressrel/pressrelease.cfm?id=3967 VA Secretary statement on Agent Orange
Try to obtain evidence that AO or other herbicidal agents were used at Nam Phong.
Dave Weeks NKP 72-73 I have VA service connected disability based on AO exposure
Citation Nr: 1004383 Decision Date: 01/28/10 Archive Date: 02/16/10 … http://www.va.gov/vetapp10/files1/1004383.txt An August 2002 VA diabetes mellitus examination included diagnoses of adult-onset diabetes mellitus in an Agent Orange-exposed Veteran; nonproliferative diabetic retinopathy; tinea … The Veteran participated in combat support operations with Task Force Delta, Nam Phong, Thailand, from May 28, 1972 to July 11, 1972. Citation Nr: 1504056 Decision Date: 01/28/15 Archive Date: 02/09/15 … http://www.va.gov/vetapp15/Files1/1504056.txt Evidence received since the March 2009 rating decision includes a February 2012 VA Agent Orange evaluation, a photograph of Nam Phong Air Base in Thailand, the Compensation and Pension (C&P) Service’s “Memorandum for the Record” on herbicide use, and the testimony of the Veteran at the August 2014 hearing … Citation Nr: 1544175 Decision Date: 10/15/15 Archive Date: 10/21/15 … http://www.va.gov/vetapp15/Files5/1544175.txt The Veteran did not have service in the Republic of Vietnam, and his base is Thailand is not recognized as one where herbicides were used. 2. … that he served as a C-130 pilot with a Marine Air Squadron and was temporarily stationed in Nam Phong, Thailand in 1973, where he believes he was exposed to Agent Orange. Thailand Military Bases and Agent Orange Exposure – Public Health http://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/agentorange/Thailand.asp Mar 14, 2017 – A Department of Defense report (9.3 MB, PDF) written in 1973, Project CHECO Southeast Asia Report: Base Defense in Thailand 1968-1972, contains evidence that there was a significant use of herbicides on the fenced-in perimeters of military bases in Thailand to remove foliage that provided cover for … Working 4 You: Vietnam-Era Vets Exposed & Ignored? http://www.arkansasmatters.com/news/local-news/working-4-you-vietnam…/763895594 Jul 12, 2017 – Kilgore wrote a letter for Rhodes to include in his appeals to the VA to offer proof that herbicides were used not only on the perimeter of Nam Phong, but within the confines of the base. Kilgore wrote in his letter that he had no doubts everyone in Nam Phong was exposed to Agent Orange. I really don’t have …
I was there July 72 thru Sept 72. Navy Corpsman sent there to help set up field hospital. Was tere during outbreak of desentary.
Stationed at NKP Mar 1970 till Aug 1971 23rd TASS. Filed VA clan in 2013 for Ischemic Heart Disease, Diabetes Type II, Neuropathy in feet and legs, and Stage 3 Kidney Disease. Va denied claim as was in assigned to perimeter duty. Filed appeal. VA hospital requested I take AO test. Took test and results came back that illnesses were most likely caused by exposure. Wonder if that has any weight on my appeal being approved////
Ray, we have a proven path to winning these claims. You need a doctor to make the Agent Orange/disease connection for you-and not a VA doctor. I might have met you I was Det. 1, 56th SOW over the fence mostly.
The problem we have on the civilian side is locating doctors who will state that illnesses are associated with exposure. Civilian doctors are very few in making such statements, especially as we age. They contribute a lot of the illnesses with age and therefore will not make such statement. If you know a doctor who will review medical records and make such a statement, please let me know. The requirement to examine us in most cases is not feasible as we are located long distances from those doctors who will verify exposure,. making a visit is very costly and the certainty of getting their statement is questionable.
Ray, That is what we do. We have doctors who do this for a living exclusively to win the claims
good. Now here is problem. I currently have a local attorney who does veterans claims, howver they do not have such doctors. What is the chance of getting your doctors to look at my medical records and give an opinion about exposure??
Mednick and Associates. Here’s the link:
I have non-Hodgkin’s Lymphoma – have been denied benefits – looking for anyone else who served at NAKHON PHANOM, THAI in 1967. VA says it might help if I can prove other people are having health issues they believe is the result of agent orange. Please contact me at my email address.
Michael, I flew in and out of NKP from 70 -72 about once a month on the 130 Klong from Don Muang/Ubon/NKP/ Udorn run and the place looked like the desert around the perimeter and the runway/taxiways. I have porphyria from this. I was stationed mostly at Udorn, Tango 11 and Long Tieng over the fence (Alternate). I have a stock letter Vets submit.
I was stationed in Udorn from Nov 69 to Oct 70. I was initially assigned to the 7ABCC to support phase maintenance on their C-130s. I was in a TDY status from November to May. In May I received orders formally assigning me the 432 FMS Electrical Shop, at which time I was detailed as a Security Police Augmentee. I submitted an agent orange claim to the VA, which was rejected because I couldn’t prove that I served as an augmentee. The VA cited that I need formal proof that I served within 150 of the perimeter. I have a photo of me holding a M-60 machine gun during our initial guard training at the firing range. As an aircraft electrician the only weapon that I handled up to that point in the Air Force was the M-16 at Lackland. I suspect that the VA will not reject the photo as proof of my service. If I could prove that my barracks was located less than 150 feet from the fence I’ll resubmit a new claim to the VA, which I suspect will also be rejected because I lack any written proof that I lived in a barracks along the base perimeter. At this point I don’t know how to proceed. Any suggestion?
Here’s a picture of Udorn with the barracks circled. This is pre-70-ish without the new big 3-story barns accross the street from the perimeter road. 150 yds. Are ya kidding me? Fifty feet max. Everybody got augmentee duty. I was critical AFSC so I escaped
I was at Udorn 1961, TAD to MABS-16,MAW-16,our unit, 1st PLT, Echo Co,2nd Bat, 9th Marines. We were the third,and last group,of Operation Millpond, March thru October. Our primary duties were Air Field Security.
In the process of putting together a claim for Pesticide Compensation, looking for any and all help I can get. #1 issue is a aerial photo of the base,or any other items that would help
Look at the widgets in white letters on black under the medal at the top. Click on anything related to AO like CHECO reports or Rainbow defoliants. On the right side, scroll down to blogs by subject and read any on AO. Read the nexus bible to understand what you need to win.
please contact me at firstname.lastname@example.org
My name is Ray Parker, looking for any help to appeal prostate claim, diabetes, bladder control, etc etc. I was in Intel at AbCCC in 71-72. Flew on all four orbits. Can we get in touch. Raylp48@gmail.com
Hell, son. We probably talked to each other- Wetback 26 Yankee. Your ABCCC call sign was Cricket in 70.
I flew all four orbits – one every third day. Really would like to find location of ABCCC at udorn or korat..
email me at email@example.com. I too was an augmentee, Jan 1970.
I haven’t checked this site for awhile! Would you please email me the stock letter you have to see if it would help me? And also, would you happen to have a picture of the NKP base? Would you happen to know anyone else who worked a the radar site? I can’t find anyone else who worked there at the same time I was there. Thanks for your help!
Sure. Shoot me an email so I can attach the document and picture to it. The second picture in this post (above) is a black and white of NKP on final approach. I have a color one somewhere.
Any stock letters of others stationed at NKP that state they saw the spraying on or around the base would be appreciated.
Sorry on that one. I wasn’t stationed there but I can attest to what I saw every time we turned left on final- a dull brown spot surrounding the runway and perimeters.
Would you email me a letter attesting to what NKP looked like. Thanks
Ray, I would certainly do that but it would not be a probative document for these purposes. I would suggest you use the picture of NKP on final in this article and contrast it to a newer one you can cut and paste from Google Earth of what NKP looks like today. The difference in foliage is fairly dramatic and shows there was something afoot that caused a lot of vegatation to die fairly regularly on base during your stay there.
Would you email the pic and I can download it easier. Thanks
Have you seen the Senate bill S2105 that is to be introduced. It pertains to establishing the “boots on ground” that was given to those vets in Vietnam? I have received an email that request that it be sent to Senators asking for their support of the bill when it is introduced.
There’s no money in VA’s budget to cover Thailand Vets for AO. It’s already eating a hole in the budget as it is. Every time they add a new disease, the cost goes up. Camp Lejeune water contamination is a good example. It took 20 years to get them to even admit it caused cancer.
See if this helps for NKP. Was there 1972-73.
Dave Weeks SETA Contractor US Army Space & Missile Defense Command / Army Forces Strategic Command Technical Center Space & Strategic Systems Directorate Space Division (256) 955-0476 (desk phone) (256) 975-2405 (Blackberry) David.firstname.lastname@example.org David.email@example.com David.firstname.lastname@example.org
Please se my earlier e-mail to you. I have reviewed pictures that have been published and can affirm that most show too little to prove anything and those that show large areas of the base were doctored to remove major equipment facilities that were in sprayed compounds. Check out the satellite images of NKP and you will see still large areas that have not re-grown vegetation in more than 40 years.
I was assigned to the NKP GCI site from Jan 1975 until October 1975. i also would like a copy of an aerial shot of the NKP base if available.
Can I get some stock letters?? email@example.com
What stock letter is this? I am working with a veterans surviving spouse for service connected death but i am unable to place him on or around the perimeter of Ubon.
Did House girls wash his clothes? Did he leave base? The whole base isn’t 500 meters w wide. The perimeter road was used to walk to and from chow hall a lot, etc, etc.
Now that being said I am still waiting on judges decision with these items used. What was his AFSC.
Good luck and keep fighting!!
His AFSC was 70270, Admin supervisor. I don’t know about anything when he was there because he has passed away and cant ask him. I can only prove right now that he was there. He was with 16th SOS at Ubon airfield starting April 5 1970.
I spent time with the admin folks in 1971. The commander was Col. Jones. I don’t know if I can recognize the name of the deceased but we can try if you want to furnish it to me.
I began my five years at NKP in June 1967. I finally got ten percent for Agent Orange for ischemic heart disease in Dec 2017. I have a lot more problems than that but am happy I am in the system and can fight for more. My wife, born there near the base lost two brothers to the Agent Orange diseases. She worked on base and now over the decades since we left developed the first stages of ischemic heart disease, gum disease, Type II diabetes, Sjogren’s Syndrome, and now has less than 20 percent kidney function. The connection to the brothers is that they all, including my wife, planted rice in their fields that were in the path of the rain runoff from the east side of the base where Agent Orange was sprayed.
Station at udorn 1974 to 1975 air force supply (afsc 64550,inventory management specialist) I have dietbetics type 2 melltius,prostate cancer,peripheral neuropathy. Claim in appeal for 1 and 1 half years now. Could use a support letter.
Look at the bottom of this link for a letter.
I tried the link and it wants a sign-in with a password. How can I get the letter?
My husband just passed away from a rare lung disease that they don’t know how you get it and you die quickly. There is no cure but possibly transplant. He served in u-tapao from 73-74. He use to run around the perimeter, but even so, AO is airborne!! He had Ischemic heart disease and had 2 open heart surgeries.He had PVD (peripheral vascular disease) He had DM2, low platlets and low iron. We were initially denied, and have been in appeals for. 2 1/2 yrs. ( Not including 13 mos before initial denial. If anyone served on U-Tapao , or if you have heard about this lung condition,please respond. Thanks
Negative on the lung condition but after spraying, the only time AO was airborne was when a chopper came in and stirred up that red clay. I blew boogers out that had it every night for two years. Once Monsoon hits, it percolates down into the soil because it’s a heavy metal base. That is also why we had to constantly respray it.
Rosalie,my Father was stationed the same place at the same time. He had a rare lung tumor,throat and larynx cancer,asthma, peripheral neuropathy,PVD, etc. Just passed Dec. 14th 2016. We put in for his Agent Orange and 100% disability. He never received it. Unfortunately. He was only getting 10% disability!!! I’m sure with several of the same things from the same place it’s AO. God bless u both.
You failed to include the 483rd EIG/EIS,Korat RTAFB on your list.We spent time TDY to every base in Thailand and worked all areas of the bases. I worked on the perimeter putting in cable for alarm system (SafeNest) for the SP towers, and was still denied because USAF conveniently lost all my records of even being therefor 4 years.
Yep. I did and I apologize. But note that I did mention there were probably others that I failed to include. One big one was the 1st Mob. GEEIA-Greatest Electrical Engineers in Asia. They set up the TACAN at Phu Pha Te that the NVA took out in 68 at Lima Site 85. They did a lot of the TRC 28 on top of Skyline Ridge above Long Tieng several times including when the gooks wiped it out St. Valentine’s Day 1971. I can’t cite everything, Ken. Some of it hasn’t even been released yet. My non-disclosure agreement ends in September 2020 (fifty years). Come back for the after action report then.
As a Quality Control NCO for the 1987 Communications Squadron at NKP from January 1968 to June 1972 (was on station for five years), I worked with GEEIA installers regularly and can attest to the fact that they worked all locations of NKP. That includes on the perimeter and in locations well within the 500 meter Agent Orange Drift Zone that was established by the U.S Army in their tests of the sprayed areas. There were other areas that were sprayed in the less than one third of NKP that were not in the drift zone.
Do you have any photos showing the spraying? Did you actually see the spraying? Am looking for any confirmation of spraying at NKP anytime during the Mar 1970 to Aug 1971 time frame. Thanks
Ray, all I have is my own experience up in Long Tieng (LS 20A) watching the Hmong kids spread AO/AB with bleach bottle scoops undiluted. I can say I saw NKP numerous times turning left on final from the air. It looked like Arizona in August and the surrounding civvie areas were all lush and green. AirAm had one A/C (PC-6 tail # N355F) devoted to spray poppies or control vegetation on Lima airstrip approaches.
I did not personally see the spraying operation. We were told to stay away from the perimeter and flightline areas when the spraying took place. The other places I know on base were sprayed were because these areas were required to be completely clear of all vegetation because the grounds served as ground planes for various radio frequencies for aircraft navigation and emergency location beacons. Many other places on base were just deductions because grass would not grow there no matter what happened.
Good morning, My name is Stephen Bobian, and I’m a Veteran Service Officer with Jackson County, located in Medford, OR. I’m working with a veteran who is experiencing complications that are a result of exposure to the Herbicide Agent Orange. He was a member of the 2863rd GEEIA SQ, and had been sent to Thailand TDY. We are having extreme difficulties finding TDY orders, or even a basic job description of GEEIA that would place him in the parameters of the Thai AFB. If anyone has any sort of TDY orders, or are willing to attest to the fact that GEEIA often was on the parameters where Agent Orange was sprayed that would be extremely helpful. Please respond via email.
Dear Mr. Bobian, Try this one out.
I do hope someone chimes it to help on this. I do know all SEA GEEIA was out of Clark. They were listed as 1st Mobile Communications Group under 13th AF. or affectionately called the 1st Mob. Try googling them. I found this instantly http://geeia.org/Message-Board/viewtopic.php?t=29
Thank you so much for the information, I’m unable to get ahold of the veteran, we sent away for his military files months ago. Last I heard he was undergoing radiation treatment, and have not been able to get him on the phone since. I’m gathering everything I can to show that he was exposed, I’m printing these comments, and using past BVA hearings that have been granted. I just want to get this claim sent off, we have been researching since April, I’m afraid of the worst happening to this veteran, this is why it is so important to get the claim sent off. If I send this, and the veteran passes away, it makes it so his dependent can continue following through on his behalf. If he passes and there was no claim officially filed, then his file is closed and no one can take over the claim to fight for him. Thank you so much for all the veterans pitching in, it’s truly humbling and solidifies our bond as fellow service members, and reminding the VA that THEY MADE A PROMISE AND NEED TO KEEP IT! Bravo Zulu.
I am the Quality Control NCO who was at NKP for five years from June 1967 to June 1972. I can personally verify that GEEIA troops worked at every location on base including on the flightline and other locations where I learned decades later that it was Agent Orange was sprayed. The difficulty with GEEIA and many others at our location was that they were sent for less than 180 days at a time and thus were not recorded as being stationed there . TDY orders were thrown around like leave records and were not recorded in permanent records in most cases. The same happened to those who were sent TDY to Vietnam. The jobs of GEEIA were to install electronic equipment, electrical and telephone cable and systems, and other equipment not installed by Red Horse (building construction) and other similar organizations. Those equipments at NKP were often on the flightline or other areas sprayed. No one knew of the spraying operations except when the spraying took place and everyone was evacuated during that time.
I finally got my ten percent last December for ischemic heart disease. I am still fighting for a higher percentage, for peripheral vascular disease, and for more than two decades of angina pain. This GEEIA member would most likely have been sent to every base in Thailand where they also sprayed Agent Orange in similar places. He, like me, probably never recognized the effects of the contact immediately like those who were sprayed directly, but they are there nonetheless, and these symptoms make life very difficult. I wish him luck.
Station at 31st field hospital, Camp Friendship, Korat, Thailand The hospital was positioned in the corner of camp friendship, and my hooch was right across the street. Everything was defoliated around the area and I have very good photographic evidence, and have submitted all of it some years ago, I have suffered prostate cancer, and one and a half years ago head hard attack, and diagnosed with coronary artery disease, I have since filed claims on both and I’m now, TDIU (Totally and Permanently Disabled and Individually coronary artery disease, I have since filed claims on both and I’m now TDIU (Totally and Permanently Disabled and Individually Unemployable), rated at 70%, paid at 100% and get full benefits. It took me about 6 years to get this settled, and when I initially filed, yes, it was just perimeter guards, etc., now it is changing, slowly, and there are those of us with MOSs and AFSCs, that placed near the perimeter. Further, all of us crossed those perimeters frequently, it is absolute BS that people have been denied for such petty rules, guidelines. Gary Rich, US Army 1966-68.
Was at Korat from 1972 till August of 1974. Remember areas that were totally devoid of plant life. Worked in and around revetments. Cannot remember exactly where F4 wet bore sighting are was Where can I get copies of the maps.
I’m no help on Korat. I was at Udorn, Long Tieng and T-11. I find things by Googling them.
<a href="https://www.google.com/search?q=Korat+RTAFB+map&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=955&tbm=isch&imgil=6fW7dy4J2SukoM%253A%253Bdz9D9uO08hUkaM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.westin553.net%25252Fbatcat08.htm&source=iu&pf=m&fir=6fW7dy4J2SukoM%253A%252Cdz9D9uO08hUkaM%252C_&usg=___XAkeK89at4Zt0aI1PKv_zVZsnk%3D&ved=0ahUKEwidruTfqL7NAhVBLmMKHV_MCXYQyjcIPQ&ei=quxrV52xEMHcjAPfmKewBw#imgrc=6fW7dy4J2SukoM%3A" target="_blank"
Was anyone able to get pictures from Gary? I am working with a Veteran who was in Korat from 12/1973-6/1974 and again in 12/1974-6/1975. The first time he was there he was with the 354th as a weapon mechanic who was a member of a load crew that loaded A-7D’s armament systems. The second time he was there he was an airborne weapon mech for A-4620. We put a claim in with the VA for Type II Diabetes due to his AO exposure. In his 4138 he explained how he remembered swimming in the drainage ditch by the hanger and flight line. He also mentioned how the water had a sheen on it while swimming. His claim hasn’t been denied yet, but I am looking for any AO evidence I can to help improve his AO exposure. If anyone has pictures, or can remember the drainage ditch, or just has any info about the base they would like to share, please reach out to me. I have been searching google like asknod had mentioned and have been searching other discussion threads, but anything would help and be greatly appreciative. Look forward to hearing from you guys.
Would you share the pictures you have. My work area was pad 55&56 down the road
from the hospital.
Gary , would you share the pictures of Camp Friendship?
I was a crew chief at Ubon 69/70 had to drag that damn fuel bowser full of contaminated JP-4 to burn pit on nights shift nobody I know ever wrote that down anywhere & all of a sudden I end up with type 2 diabetes out of nowhere nobody in my family ever had diabetes.
where you their for the attack on July 28th 1968? Did you know that there was a radar site on the base?
They were spraying the crappie out of ubon about in 1972 and 1973 they went down with a tank truck and sprayed and it was cloudy with that junk does anyone know what it was?
Could have been for misqtoes. But I believe around the air strip 24d and 24t was used Jim Bisek. 1972 1973 Ubon. 8 TFW.
lets come together on board and beat this thing call denial if it mean marching on Washington if you know a better way call me I am ready 21 years 6 months lost wife and three kids behind agent orange firstname.lastname@example.org 336-623-4691 336-209-4748
I was stationed in Karat in 1968 1969 and Satahip camp same san I was in food service as a matter of fact I was the mess sgt we delivered chow to many of you on the perimeter I remember the 50 caliber machine gun sites my claim has been denied twice, what we need to do is flood the va with support letters from each other, call me 336-623-4691 or 336-209-4748 email email@example.com do it now or we all will be gone shortly
SSGT David (Dave) Weeks, 1987th Comm Sq, , R306x0 (crypto) Nakhon Phanom RTAFB (NKP), 1972-73. Denied AO claim for diabetes type 2 diagnosed formally two years ago. Was assigned as perimeter security augmentee; lived in hootch on back side next to special ops troops near the perimeter with nothing between us and the perimeter except for a machine gun bunker; exercised (jogged) on trail/road adjacent to perimeter; performed keying material changes over entire base including installations close to the perimeter; walked or rode bike daily between hootch and Task Force Alpha (also not far from perimeter). Not allowed to carry camera on-duty (90-117 hours each week – yes, no typo) but VA wants a photo of me at the perimeter. No one on either side of my family has ever been diagnosed with diabetes; was not overweight.
I think we need to revisit augmentee duty and find the CHECO records on it. Seems every base had to use Augmented Forces. We did up at Udorn. Same deal of our barracks being about 50 feet from the perimeter and it was barren on both sides all year long. Brown dead grass/bushes.
I have a solid link up above for all tHE CHECO stuff we’ve found so far. I also wrote a letter for Jim Chevrette as he served the same place I did up at Udorn. Same barracks, Same augmentee game. Look at all of my AO posts, David. Any relation to Fred Weeks who was killed in late 71 up at Tango 11? Same AFSC in DSTE (crypto)
I have downloaded the CHECO report (years ago) but long before I developed diabetes (or at least before a formal diagnosis). Since I have no family history of diabetes a VA doctor told me that mine was likely caused by exposure to AO.
You get that in writing with a reasoned “Rule out…” and you can win this. Look at the Nexus Bible and CAVC precedence on what they will buy (Olbert v. Brown). A nexus that reaches is toast. One that succeeds describes why the doctor feels it is probative. I pulled down several pics of NKP in 70 where it was a brown spot next to the river. Next I did a few with google earth showing it today and the last ten years at different times (i.e. winter vs Monsoon). It’s a stark difference.
did you win your claim for exposure to agent orange if so please call me firstname.lastname@example.org 336-623-4691 335-209-4748
Udorn Thailand, 1966-67. REDHORSE 556. Our outfit built most of the red circled area, Slept in two story barracks, right on the fence. Walked down the fence line each morning to the klong, turned right to our office, checked mail, finished my walk to the fence, turned right, down the fence to my warehouse, 50 yards behind the NCO CLUB. On denial appeal!Have a great lawyer on my case, all He does is Agent orange cases. Can reach at email@example.com John Adams
ANYWAY YOU CAN HELP ME I’M A WIDOW THAT WAS STATIONED IN UDORN FROM 1973-1974 CREW CHIEF. firstname.lastname@example.org
I was always being told I had to loose weight. I arrived at NKP weighing 217. It is in my medical record that I lost 30 pounds. In order to stay off the “fat boy program” I had to run daily. I chose the perimeter road. Other airmen ran here as well as Army SF. That road had no vegetation in the middle like the dirt roads in my neck of the woods in Utah. Nothing grew on at road. I got dust all over my boots along with mud. I took that dirt to my hootch when I returned. I even ran during the rain and wore my jungle boots in the puddles and mud. During my runs, vehicles often passed me as I ran with dust and splashing water on me. I went to my hootch and rested on my bed where the sheets were brown from the dust. I wonder how long the mattresses had been there. The base laundry washed them and our uniforms. Cross contamination from dust, dirt and mud from the perimeter road and other contaminated sites must have gotten into everything at every building we frequented in base. Dioxin knows no biundrys. It must have covered my feet and inhaled into my lungs. If herbicides were used on the parimeter roads then I was exposed and the base must have been exposed as well.
I failed to mention diabetes type II since age 40. Stage three kidney failure at age 60. Neuropathy in my feet and ankles and legs with deep itching, burning and numbness. Prostate problems with BPH, but no cancer. Numbness in my fingers. Difficulty walking.
I was at NKP in 1974.
One reply is above. I also add that the local nationals there were also affected. I married at NKP. My Thai wife over the years developed Type 2 diabetes and Sjogren’s Syndrome. Every Thai wife we know from most of the bases there developed diabetes and one Alzheimer’s. My wife’s family also developed diabetes. There were no family histories relating to diabetes before. The nationals there, of course, did not wear boots but open shoes everywhere.
NKP 1966-1967 as Security Police outside perimeter
REDHORSE 556, was a trained combat outfit. Hear after the attack in 67, many troops were armed. Traveled to NKP, Ubon, all over, by my self 6 x 6 truck. Had friends at Air America, armed the whole tour, my choice. Watched the area being sprayed, many times, watched agent orange loaded by hand, WW ll prop planes.
Was there with the same organization for five years and left in late June 1972, I developed ischemic heart disease and neuropathy. I filed initially in 1981 and none of the AO data was released at that time. Lost that and appealed and lost. I filed again this last January and was denied. Am appealing that. Their biggest demand is that I prove I was a Security Police Augmentee. I cannot find any of the records, only a resume that I included the duty in my job description of the time. I know of your duty there completely and am willing to make a statement on your behalf, but don’t know if I trust the VA to believe it. I would also like to get a statement from anyone there who know that I was an SP augmentee or who also knew of all the areas that had been sprayed. When I left I had not been in your area of the comm center for a long time because over the five years I was there my duties took me to many more places on the base. Sorry I do not remember you just now. Forty-five years take memory away. A picture of you then might help.
Please contact me at my e-mail address.
As above, I was Quality Control NCO at this organization from January 1978 to June 1972 (was there for 5 years). I am familiar with SSgt Weeks job and where he lived. No one has told him that the U.S. Army tested the sprayed areas and declared the drift zone was 500 meters, not 50 feet. NKP was 1800 meters wide and the drift zones for the longest perimeters left the base with only 800 meters width not in the drift zone. Within that zone were other sprayed areas. Did anyone ever notice there were no fleets of mowers on the base to mow grass? That is because the cost of all that grounds maintenance went to the war effort. That is one reason why so many areas of the base were sprayed. SSgt Weeks job did indeed take him all over the base and the primary method of transportation on NKP was walking. Vehicles were used only when required to transport large numbers of troops and equipment.
SGT. JAMES A. CHEVRETTE, 1973 COMM SQ. JUNE 1969-70. DENIED 100% FOR ISCHEMIC HEART DISEASE BECAUSE COULD NOT PROVE WAS AROUND PERIMETER. SERVICED TELETYPE EQUIPT. AT 555 FIGHTER SQ. AND AIR AMERICA. BOTH ON FLIGHT LINE. CAN ANYONE WHO SERVED IN 1973 COM SQ. SENT ME EMAIL VERIFYING WE WORKED ALONG PERIMITER email@example.com
Please see my email sent 1441 hrs 9/24/14.
My father was in 1973 Comm SQ 1968-1969 and has passed with claim pending. I am trying to get information for my mom. He was also teletype maintance. lso trying to get perimeter verification.
Thank you for your email. I am out of the office until the first week of May. I will follow up with you when I return to my office. Please email me the last of April, 1st week of May at Asknod@gmail.com. Please include your phone number and the best time to reach you, plus any details you can provide. Thank you for your Father’s Service and I look forward to speaking with you soon.
Where was the MARS station located at Takhli RTAFB?
Contact me if you get this? HowardJennings7@Gmail.com. Takhli RTAFB 1967-1968
My vso said there was people exposed to ao that was in the gulf of tokin. I dont have much
confidence in him as he hasnt help me much with mt claims i have. I have hep c was in military
hospital befor discharge for 39 days with acute hep and mono but still been denied about 4 times so far for that. We were within a 1/2 mile from the coast along with the new jersey. Got ringing in my ears so bad i can hardly here and got arthritis really bad in about every joint. He said that was from ao so was just wondering if he knows what he is talking about. Thanks for any info. Charles CrumpBeen fighting va since 2004 but not giving up. take care and god bless you for all the help you are doing for the vets
The Haas decision http://lawyersforwarriors.blogspot.com/2008/10/blue-water-navy-agent-orange-appeal.html Is a “Welcome to the VA” wakeup call. VA effectively dumped all the Blue water Navy in the trashcan and skated. I hope you can find something here to win with, sir.
DM2 is one of those conditions that don’t fall into remission. You have it or you don’t. It is because of the food you are preparing and lifestyle that his blood sugar is under control —- however, even with that, those numbers can go to hell in a hand basket in a split second. It would be the same with hypertension, as long as the person is taking their meds and following a BP friendly diet, the BP numbers usually remain constant and within range, unless a major blow-up occurs in the way of a heart attack, stroke or other idiopathic consequence.
For example, my DH has cirrhosis as a result of HepC infection. Within a few hours last year he developed a condition called thrombocyptopenia and his BP went sky-high and he had been taking his BP meds, all of his meds actually. AT the ER, it was determined he had suffered a silent heart attack sometime in the past (we have been able to narrow the time frame down from evidence contained within his medrecs.)
Bottom line, if you husband was exposed to AO and has a confirmed DX of DM2, he should high-tail it down to the nearest VSO or…..as many do, skip the VSO and file his claim on his own. You never know if the DM2 will exacerbate OR cause incidence of a related condition to crop up and you will want those service connected if something happens to preserve the filing date.
Take it from a wife who has been through it……
First, criteria has to be met that he was boots on ground in RVN or, as Nod lists, in one of the airborne units to be presumed to have been exposed. This is a must or the claim will be denied.
VA has recently added a list of blue water ships with possible exposures to Agent Orange. It’s interesting to read through, one ship in particular that was not on the list is now — I’d like to think that us proving to the VA the ship did dock where it did on occasion with enough Veterans who filed claims and won, did the trick but we’ll never know for certain and it doesn’t matter in the whole scheme of things. What matters is that other sailors onboard who came down with illness and ailments due to exposure to the AO do receive service connection. My thought is enough Veterans filed, proved and won their claim(s) that VA had to finally say “Well, Okay…we agree that it could have happened and therefore it did.”
Does your hubby have a Hemoglobin A1C test done every 3 months? That will tell the average blood sugar levels for the previous 3 months. This is an important indicator of average blood sugar but it doesn’t indicate damage. Be cautious of the peaks and valleys of his blood sugar readings, those are the culprits of kidney, heart, damage to the eyes, etc the docs are concerned the most with.
Forgot to add the link:
Thank you for this detailed answer. Yes, he was in-country for a year. He was diagnosed with DM2 while being treated for HCV. (Fibrosis/grade 2.) We made significant lifestyle changes and got the DM2 under control without medication. We haven’t filed any claims–the whole thing is SO overwhelming. He sees a VA doc every 6 months and they do blood work. All I know is that they are keeping tabs on his blood sugar but aren’t too concerned. But I appreciate your advice and will look into this–probably with a private doctor. His eyesight has been getting worse and I am concerned. It sounds as if he should file for AO related DM2 since we have a confirmed DX on that from 2003-2004. Thanks again. This forum gives me courage to press on.
How would one define “have” diabetes mellitus 2 for claim purposes if it was previously diagnosed but is now under control due to a strict, mostly vegetarian, diet? If my DH goes off the diet, it will return in full force. So does he have it or not? I say “yes” because while currently in remission, it’s only because I, the cook, work hard at maintaining a healthy pantry.
I believe your blood sugar readings would still spike on a glucose test.
Also, could you post information about the blood test for PCT? When my DH was getting
treated for HCV (non-VA), he complained constantly about the sores on his head. He was sent to a dermatologist (non-VA) who was clueless as was his private internist. After reading your asknod blog, and doing a little outside research, I now am certain that he had PCT. The mystery “sores” went away eventually after a successful year of treatment. (We just learned that his HCV genotype was 1 so he’s been fortunate indeed.)