Thailand AO Exposure

downloadI got an interesting article from member (anyone who writes me is a member!) Mike J. this morning. Attached was a link to a Veterans  legal assistance site talking about certain sites in Thailand and the usage of AO there.

The listed sites were Udorn, Ubon, NKP, Takhli, U-Tapao, Korat and Don Muang. Well, what the hey. Most would think that kind of shoots the moon because that is all the bases there were. Wrong. Most do not know the network of spook sites that were spread all over the country. We had operating locations in Chiang Mai, Phitsanolouk, Lampang , Nam Phong (Kan Kaen) and Ramasun to name just a few. I’m sure there were others even I didn’t hear about.

Another thing that disturbs me is that the thrust of the article was entirely towards Security Police squadrons and their duties on the base perimeters. I’m sure many of you remember arriving in country and being told you were going to be put on “Augmentation duty”. This was a one month assignment with full combat gear to defend the perimeter. It was twelve hours on and twelve off with one day a week reprieve to pai teo (seek pleasure).Due to the fact that many bases were extremely understaffed, the Air Police couldn’t handle the perimeter duties. We didn’t trust the Thai Army that were assigned because they could be bribed and also had a propensity to sleep on duty at night.

What the article does not discuss is the duties of AFSC 362X1 and 362X4. These codes are for Cable Splicer/Maintenance and Telephone installer/Maintenance. Both involved spending nearly every waking moment outside repairing or installing cable or telephones. In the case of the latter, there was a lot of perimeter repair work for the telephone installers. I know because that was my primary AFSC. Because we were so understaffed, I got away without pulling Augmentation, but the trade off was the excessive amount of time spent in areas that had  been sprayed.

Most people who have never been to that part of the world have no idea how rapidly vegetation grows. A jungle can spring up in six months after clearing it. Within two years you would have no idea there had been any activity there. The same was true on the perimeter. We had ten foot tall cyclone fences topped with concertina wire. An area 50 feet wide on both sides of the fence was completely denuded of vegetation for a better field of fire. I can honestly say I never saw it sprayed at Udorn or Chiang Mai, but the evidence was constantly there. I did watch the Hmong kids spread it up at 20 Alternate (Long Tieng) with bleach bottle scoops right out of the barrel. This was undiluted and extremely caustic. The children just went down to the creek and jumped in to wash it off their bodies and clothes.That creek was also their drinking water supply.

For any of you assigned to the following Communications squadrons who had outside plant duties as Cable splicers or telephone installers, I would seriously consider filing a claim for AO if you suffer any of the diseases associated with it and listed in 38 CFR §3.309(e)

Don Muang RTAFB— Bangkok (Krung Taep)

Nam Phong (Kon Kaen)—Marine Logistics Support Group Delta

Korat RTAFB—-1998th Comm. Sqadron

Takhli RTAFB—- 1980th Comm. Squadron

U-Tapao Royal Thai Navy Airfield—-1985th Comm. Squadron

Nakhon Phanom RTAFB (NKP)—- 1987th Comm. Squadron [to include Pakse (Lima-11) across the Mekong river in Laos.]

Udorn RTAFB—- 1974th Comm. Group; 1973 Comm. Squadron;  [to include up-country personnel assigned to Lima Site-20 Alternate (Long Tieng) and Lima-54 (Luang Prabang); TRC-103 area

Ubon RTAFB—- 1982nd Comm. Squadron

Operating Location B, 1980th Comm. Squadron (Phitsanulok  MRC-98 Tropo Scatter site)

Operating Location C, 1980th Comm. Squadron (Chiang Mai Airport); aka O/L-C, 1973rd Comm. Sq.; aka O/L-E, 1974th Comm. Group; Detachment B,  7th Radio Research Field Station; Detachment 415, USAF HQ Command.

Kho Kha (Lampang) —17th Space Surveillance Squadron Radar Station

Camp Ramasun—– 7th Radio Research Field Station

1st MOB (1st Mobile Communications Group) deployments to any of these locations

As I mentioned, this represents most of the bases or small operating locations I remember. I do know there were more but many required a higher security clearance than I had to even be aware of them.  Most have been declassified for more than 15 years now, so if any of you are aware of ones I missed, please feel free to contribute. If you know someone who fits this profile please be sure to tell them to get tested for liver function tests and uroporphyrins in the urine. There is also a blood test for PCT now as well.  If they have Diabetes Mellitus Type 2, they may be eligible for a presumptive exposure to AO.

P.S. Here’s another site that will provide a wealth of cut and paste for your AO Thailand claim. Something else to consider is that they fought us tooth and nail on this for twenty or more years and refused to entertain the idea that one drop of AO fell outside RVN. The cracks in the wall started and now we have this. First it will be the MPs. I suspect the commo guys will get a piece of it next. Then? Well, if you were on base and the wind was blowing, what do you think? We’re not talking about some impossibility like getting clap from a toilet seat or Immaculate Conception. Look at  the base perimeter on the northwest side at Udorn. Our barracks and hootches were less the 60 feet from the fence. There was nothing growing in between-period. A perimeter road in laterite and red clay dirt then the fence.

And added 13 Sept. 2013 is this . An AF guy who sprayed the crap by hand at Udorn wins his case. Read this closely. He admits he sprayed it around common areas like the barracks. We figured that much but here’s the verbal proof. VA says we cannot use BVA decisions to support our claims as they are too individualized and represent the Vet involved but you can cite to it to have a judge take “judicial notice of it”.

Read this one as it is far newer and has some World Airways data for us to look at. Remember, to get to Thailand for most of us required going to Tan Son Nhut and then to Bangkok before we dispersed to duty assignments.

Also, here’s the latest claim that says the same thing at the CAVC. His widow won on the question. Now she needs to scare up the World Airways information pertinent to her husband.

Here’s a map of Udorn RTAFB with the new 3-story barns 50 feet away from the fence and 20 feet from the perimeter road.

UdornRTAFB Heavy herbicide usage near barracks.jpg

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124 Responses to Thailand AO Exposure

  1. Joe Bishton says:

    Just filed a claim with VA through VSO this morning. Have prostate cancer and quad-bypass heart condition. Was stationed with 485th EIS (GEEIA) Cam Ranh Bay 1971 & 483rd EIS KORAT 1971 – 1972. Traveled around by air cand ground to most bases in Thailand as a 30670.

    • asknod says:

      VA is going to give you a ration of shit and tell you if you were not in Vietnam that you are ineligible for the presumptive of herbicide exposure. When they deny you, please contact me here again and I can help you win the claims.

  2. Ray Thomas Hill III says:

    I was stationed at UBON RTAFB Thailand 1971-72 and worked at the 408th MMS Bomb Dump. I recently was diagnosed with Parkinson’s disease, which I believe is service related due to the herbicides being used during my tour of duty there. Has anyone else been diagnosed with PD since having served at UBON?

    • Ray parker says:

      I was at Udorn and Korat. I have filed a claim back 2010 for tinnitus and PTSD. Denied for both. Then came prostate cancer, diabetes, and neuropathy. Have not been approved for any, all denied. I have to prove I was near the perimeter and subjected to agent orange. I was in 7th ABCCC. and lived on the perimeter and on the flight line daily. Still filing and being persistent. STAY AFTER THEM!

      • Ray Hill says:

        Thx Ray and I will … I’ll let you know what happens with me too. Ray

      • Ray Hill says:

        FYI, I was awarded 30% compensation recently for my herbicide agent orange claim I filed in June this year. I submitted a justification letter to my claim on August 1 and received my VA letter confirming my award on August 24. Clearly I was impacted by these herbicides at UBON and is why I believe I have Parkinson’s. Good luck to you.


    • John Bemiss says:

      I was at Ubon jan 70 -71 weapons loader. Trying to file a claim with the VA for recurring skin cancer. I’m trying to find any pictures of the MMS 2 story barracks that were on the perimeter. I have a picture I took of the defoliated area behind the barracks but not one with the barracks and the perimeter
      Thanks John Bemiss

      • Ray parker says:

        Ray have pics and have prostate cancer, neuropathy and type 2 diabetes. My pics are Udorn and Korat, but all bases in Thailand as you know are on the list. Your burden as is mine is to prove my AFSC took me near the flight line and perimeter. I have given the proof but no approval yet.

        • John Bemiss says:

          I know what you mean. The barracks we were in were near the perimeter and I did find they spray in June 1970, so if there was any drift it would get in the barracks s we had open ventilation (windows). Just need to find a picture of the barracks along with my perimeter picture should prove exposure. Was on the flight line 6 days a week 12 hours a day. Did arm/de-arm end of run way duty also.
          Good luck on your claim

  3. Maria Averill says:

    We were just denied by the VA for IPF due to AO. 1)It’s not on the presumptive list and 2) there’s no proof that he did Auggie Doggie duty or line duty while he was in Ubon. My thought is, who DIDN’T do it??

      • Ray parker says:

        have filed a claim 7 yrs ago. I hope to see you supporting S. Bill 2105. I would also like you to encourage the Texas Congressmen to support H.R. 4843.

        I hope this can speed up the claim process.
        I have had my claim deferred and denied because they say I was not on a base that had been sprayed with spectracides that have caused me to have prostrate cancer and numerous other ailments. All of the bases (udorn and Korat) I was stationed are now on the list.
        Yet I have to know prove my AFSC (intell) brought me in contact with Agent Orange or what ever.

        HELP by supporting these bills if nothing else can be done.

        Raymond L Parker, SSgt E-4
        Pflugerville Texas
        Service dates 70-71.

  4. Marshall (Mark) Brown says:

    The following information was found while doing research on AO exposure at NKP, 1966-69. Some of the data may be repetitive from other sites.
    – UC-123K Ranch Hand aircraft assigned to 609th Air Commando Squadron (redesignated 609th Special Operations Squadron August 1, 1968). UC-123K Provider was a C-123B with two underwing J85 booster engines and larger wheels. Each aircraft had a 1,000 gallon herbicide tank, feeding to dispersal spray booms mounted under each wing and the tail. Spray missions were flown at 130 knots and as low as possible, leaving a herbicide path more than eighty yards wide and up to ten miles long.
    – Aircraft (UC-123K and helicopter with spray nozzles) parked on flightline across from Red Horse compound (according to Red Horse member)
    – Tactical Herbicides (AO) were authorized by Embassy in March 1966 for use on the perimeter and on base. U. S. Army Field Manual 3-3, Tactical Employment of Herbicides’, December 1971 states herbicides will air drift 500 meters. The entire Air Base was less than one kilometer wide.
    – AO used extensively around Task Force Alpha compound located NE corner of base. Many off-duty airmen worked for contractor (Parsons, INC) constructing earth filled ARMCO corrugated steel revetment that surrounded compound.

    • asknod says:

      Okay, sir. Let’s analyze your comments the way the VA does.
      Aircraft (UC-123K and helicopter with spray nozzles) parked on flightline across from Red Horse compound (according to Red Horse member)

      I guess you can see the problem. If the VA, through JSCRUR, cannot confirm the 123’s were there (or any Hueys) then that is the end of the subject. Lay testimony, in and of itself does not qualify as evidence. Claiming that some unidentified Red Horse member stated it as fact is called “hearsay”. Watch Judge Judy to understand this concept.

      Tactical herbicides are not listed under the rainbow herbicides (Blue, Green, White, Pink and Orange and Purple).

      Yes, tactical or presumptive herbicides will drift 500 meters with prevailing wind If- IF- sprayed from altitude at 130 knots. This would not hold true for NKP because the “tactical” herbicides were hand or truck-sprayed at ground level-not dispersed from altitude.

      If you can show me a military document that definitively states that AO was sprayed at NKP, I’ll start filing these claims in a hearbeat for you guys. The problem is that the King of Thailand feared for the rice crops and didn’t want to see a repeat of what was happening up country in Laos where we destroyed their crops. Thus the fiction that “tactical” herbicides were employed versus true rainbow presumptives. Nowadays we call that plausible denial. Call it a tactical weedkiller instead of a defoliant and it falls within the regulation. We know they used AO and a lot of A Blue. Hell I saw the AO and AB barrels in the bomb dump at Long Tieng in 1970. No one argues that. It’s finding the smoking gun government document that says it. To date, there is none.

      Remember also that they (VA) like to use the metric of being in the perimeter via your AFSC/MOS. Every one of us who went off-base walked or drove through the perimeter for a year. I’d say that puts you smack dab “in the perimeter” numerous times- surely enough to qualify for exposure. This is a brand new argument no one yet has brought to appeal. I voiced this point on the URG website several times. To my knowledge, no one has yet used it.

      Getting SC for AO in Thailand is a word game with VA. I had no problem claiming it for Laos. They never even whimpered or attempted to say I wasn’t exposed. The way to a win is still an independent medical opinion from a private doctor. Period. Game. Set. Match.

      • Mark Brown says:

        Gotcha! I’m new at this & am learning the pitfalls. Obviously, I need to take more time & read the archived materials. The UC-123K is factual (unit histories), the chopper “hearsay” as I have nothing but anecdotal evidence. Time to go back to work. Thanks for taking the time to address my comments.

      • Deborah Mitchell ( wife of Lewis Mitchell) says:

        I had a private doctor to tel me my husband had ALL EVIDENCE of A O…and VA said it also. . .but was still denied…and I’m still fighting. ..

  5. Thomas G. Banks says:

    I am looking for any information concerning agent orange exposure at Nakhon Phanom RTAFB, Thailand, 1969-1969. I was assigned to Task Force Alpha and trying to fight the VA over associated diseases associated with possible exposure.

    • Weeks, David Jamison (Dave) CTR USARMY SMDTC (US) says:

      I don’t know if it was there in 69 but by 1970 there was the “Aderholt trail” connecting the perimeter hootch area to TFA. It was purported that the jungle growth around the trail was curtailed by used of AO. By 72, the trail was a sidewalk leading through growth areas connecting to TFA and was used by pedestrians and bicyclists (including) myself to get to/from work in TFA. If you lived in a hootch within 500m of the perimeter, you were within the wind blown distance of AO per an Army manual.

      • asknod says:

        Heinie’s son Bob and I went to school together in Goldsboro back in 62-64. We were even in the same confirmation class at St. Mark’s in 63. Small world. Hunter safety course together at Seymour Johnson Rod and Gun Club. My dad bird hunted with Heinie back then before he set up shop at Eglin in ’65

        • Weeks, David Jamison (Dave) CTR USARMY SMDTC (US) says:

          Heinie Aderholt was widely respected at NKP and within the Thailand, Laos, Cambodia Brotherhood on whose website you can find some good photos of NKP.

  6. Ray parker says:

    Does that surprise anyone. No money!
    The three D’s

  7. Brenda Abbott Wife of SSGT James E.Abbott 1985 th Comm Sqdn in 1966-1967 says:

    I am looking for someone that would know where they set up the first ball field on U-Tapao in 1966.
    My husband played ball and talked about the dirt filling his lungs and the water made it feel like
    he was full of mud. I am filing for widows pension since he died of Lung Cancer in 2012. He was stationed at U-Tapao Aug 1966 thru Sept 1967. I also need some one to state they knew AOI was sprayed at that time. He was in Comm Sq. and they tell me his code of service did not put him
    on the perimeter although I know from his letters he went thru the main gate to go to different places and swam in the sea right outside the base. Any help will be appreciated.

  8. Fred Marvin says:

    Regarding the 362X1 and 362X4 career fields at NKP, as Quality Control NCO from Jan 1968 to Jun 1972 I monitored the work of the telephone cable and telephone installer work centers among others. All these airmen not only installed aerial and buried cables and telephone drops and instruments, they had to dig by hand all locations to install and repair buried cables. Very seldom was any digging equipment used because there usually was none available. Some projects such as the perimeter sensor project brought in equipment, but those were few. Cables and instruments were installed in every building, outpost, and tower on the base, including the Army quarters located near the SE perimeter. I participated in a few of the major cable repairs and monitored all major repairs and large cable installations.

    • asknod says:

      Yeah. Remember the !st Mob (GEEIA) taking a weekend off about mid-August to celebrate their 30th anniversary of existence and the 06 paper insulated cable pit filled up with water when the mudhog broke down? AirAm was dead in the water for a week. So was TRC-103. We strung field wire across the perimeter to them for a few hotlines. GEEIA Greatest Electrical Engineers In Asia. Everything was flooded. Deuce 1/2 @ 1700 to the hotel.

    • Stephen says:

      So I just got off the phone with the veteran I’m working with, and he said it wold be ok if I mentioned his name on here. His name is Leonard Ebacher 36154 Cable splicer, was in SEA around 64-67, often went on jobs with the 2876rd GEEIA SQ, but was with the 2863rd GEEIA Sq. What I would need to help his claim before we submit it, is a few buddy statement that are signed and dated, attesting to the job(S) GEEIA was responsible for while TDY in S.E.A, and how the members were often working on the parameters of the bases in Thailand. Another key to include would be Agent Orange exposure as well. Thank you so much for the help. My work email is

  9. Was at Nam phong may 1972 usn seabee mcb-5 with marines built the “Rose Garden”. US special forces there, Thai special forces there, we were told it was a secret base. I have multiple illnesses Parkinson etc..Help!!!

  10. Ray Reid says:

    Stationed at NKP Mar 1970 till Aug 1971 23rd TASS. Filed VA clan in 2013 for Ischemic Heart Disease, Diabetes Type II, Neuropathy in feet and legs, and Stage 3 Kidney Disease. Va denied claim as was in assigned to perimeter duty. Filed appeal. VA hospital requested I take AO test. Took test and results came back that illnesses were most likely caused by exposure. Wonder if that has any weight on my appeal being approved////

    • asknod says:

      Ray, we have a proven path to winning these claims. You need a doctor to make the Agent Orange/disease connection for you-and not a VA doctor. I might have met you I was Det. 1, 56th SOW over the fence mostly.

      • Ray Reid says:

        The problem we have on the civilian side is locating doctors who will state that illnesses are associated with exposure. Civilian doctors are very few in making such statements, especially as we age. They contribute a lot of the illnesses with age and therefore will not make such statement. If you know a doctor who will review medical records and make such a statement, please let me know. The requirement to examine us in most cases is not feasible as we are located long distances from those doctors who will verify exposure,. making a visit is very costly and the certainty of getting their statement is questionable.

  11. Michael Barry says:

    I have non-Hodgkin’s Lymphoma – have been denied benefits – looking for anyone else who served at NAKHON PHANOM, THAI in 1967. VA says it might help if I can prove other people are having health issues they believe is the result of agent orange. Please contact me at my email address.
    Michael Barry

    • asknod says:

      Michael, I flew in and out of NKP from 70 -72 about once a month on the 130 Klong from Don Muang/Ubon/NKP/ Udorn run and the place looked like the desert around the perimeter and the runway/taxiways. I have porphyria from this. I was stationed mostly at Udorn, Tango 11 and Long Tieng over the fence (Alternate). I have a stock letter Vets submit.

      • Stephen Powell says:

        I was stationed in Udorn from Nov 69 to Oct 70. I was initially assigned to the 7ABCC to support phase maintenance on their C-130s. I was in a TDY status from November to May. In May I received orders formally assigning me the 432 FMS Electrical Shop, at which time I was detailed as a Security Police Augmentee. I submitted an agent orange claim to the VA, which was rejected because I couldn’t prove that I served as an augmentee. The VA cited that I need formal proof that I served within 150 of the perimeter. I have a photo of me holding a M-60 machine gun during our initial guard training at the firing range. As an aircraft electrician the only weapon that I handled up to that point in the Air Force was the M-16 at Lackland. I suspect that the VA will not reject the photo as proof of my service. If I could prove that my barracks was located less than 150 feet from the fence I’ll resubmit a new claim to the VA, which I suspect will also be rejected because I lack any written proof that I lived in a barracks along the base perimeter. At this point I don’t know how to proceed. Any suggestion?

      • Michael Barry says:

        I haven’t checked this site for awhile! Would you please email me the stock letter you have to see if it would help me? And also, would you happen to have a picture of the NKP base? Would you happen to know anyone else who worked a the radar site? I can’t find anyone else who worked there at the same time I was there. Thanks for your help!

        • asknod says:

          Sure. Shoot me an email so I can attach the document and picture to it. The second picture in this post (above) is a black and white of NKP on final approach. I have a color one somewhere.

          • Ray Reid says:

            Any stock letters of others stationed at NKP that state they saw the spraying on or around the base would be appreciated.

            • asknod says:

              Sorry on that one. I wasn’t stationed there but I can attest to what I saw every time we turned left on final- a dull brown spot surrounding the runway and perimeters.

              • Ray Reid says:

                Would you email me a letter attesting to what NKP looked like. Thanks

                • asknod says:

                  Ray, I would certainly do that but it would not be a probative document for these purposes. I would suggest you use the picture of NKP on final in this article and contrast it to a newer one you can cut and paste from Google Earth of what NKP looks like today. The difference in foliage is fairly dramatic and shows there was something afoot that caused a lot of vegatation to die fairly regularly on base during your stay there.

                  • sc police says:

                    Would you  email the pic and I can download it easier.  Thanks

                  • Ray Reid says:

                    Have you seen the Senate bill S2105 that is to be introduced. It pertains to establishing the “boots on ground” that was given to those vets in Vietnam? I have received an email that request that it be sent to Senators asking for their support of the bill when it is introduced.

                    • asknod says:

                      There’s no money in VA’s budget to cover Thailand Vets for AO. It’s already eating a hole in the budget as it is. Every time they add a new disease, the cost goes up. Camp Lejeune water contamination is a good example. It took 20 years to get them to even admit it caused cancer.

        • Weeks, David Jamison (Dave) CTR USARMY SMDTC (US) says:

          See if this helps for NKP. Was there 1972-73.

          Dave Weeks SETA Contractor US Army Space & Missile Defense Command / Army Forces Strategic Command Technical Center Space & Strategic Systems Directorate Space Division (256) 955-0476 (desk phone) (256) 975-2405 (Blackberry)

        • Fred Marvin says:

          Please se my earlier e-mail to you. I have reviewed pictures that have been published and can affirm that most show too little to prove anything and those that show large areas of the base were doctored to remove major equipment facilities that were in sprayed compounds. Check out the satellite images of NKP and you will see still large areas that have not re-grown vegetation in more than 40 years.

        • Lee Richey says:

          I was assigned to the NKP GCI site from Jan 1975 until October 1975. i also would like a copy of an aerial shot of the NKP base if available.

      • Can I get some stock letters??


      • Scott Dexter says:

        What stock letter is this? I am working with a veterans surviving spouse for service connected death but i am unable to place him on or around the perimeter of Ubon.

        • Ray parker says:

          Did House girls wash his clothes? Did he leave base? The whole base isn’t 500 meters w wide. The perimeter road was used to walk to and from chow hall a lot, etc, etc.
          Now that being said I am still waiting on judges decision with these items used. What was his AFSC.
          Good luck and keep fighting!!

          • Scott Dexter says:

            His AFSC was 70270, Admin supervisor. I don’t know about anything when he was there because he has passed away and cant ask him. I can only prove right now that he was there. He was with 16th SOS at Ubon airfield starting April 5 1970.

    • Fred Marvin says:

      I began my five years at NKP in June 1967. I finally got ten percent for Agent Orange for ischemic heart disease in Dec 2017. I have a lot more problems than that but am happy I am in the system and can fight for more. My wife, born there near the base lost two brothers to the Agent Orange diseases. She worked on base and now over the decades since we left developed the first stages of ischemic heart disease, gum disease, Type II diabetes, Sjogren’s Syndrome, and now has less than 20 percent kidney function. The connection to the brothers is that they all, including my wife, planted rice in their fields that were in the path of the rain runoff from the east side of the base where Agent Orange was sprayed.

  12. Station at udorn 1974 to 1975 air force supply (afsc 64550,inventory management specialist) I have dietbetics type 2 melltius,prostate cancer,peripheral neuropathy. Claim in appeal for 1 and 1 half years now. Could use a support letter.

  13. Rosalie Beckwith says:

    My husband just passed away from a rare lung disease that they don’t know how you get it and you die quickly. There is no cure but possibly transplant. He served in u-tapao from 73-74. He use to run around the perimeter, but even so, AO is airborne!! He had Ischemic heart disease and had 2 open heart surgeries.He had PVD (peripheral vascular disease) He had DM2, low platlets and low iron. We were initially denied, and have been in appeals for. 2 1/2 yrs. ( Not including 13 mos before initial denial. If anyone served on U-Tapao , or if you have heard about this lung condition,please respond. Thanks

    • asknod says:

      Negative on the lung condition but after spraying, the only time AO was airborne was when a chopper came in and stirred up that red clay. I blew boogers out that had it every night for two years. Once Monsoon hits, it percolates down into the soil because it’s a heavy metal base. That is also why we had to constantly respray it.

    • Natalie Perdew says:

      Rosalie,my Father was stationed the same place at the same time. He had a rare lung tumor,throat and larynx cancer,asthma, peripheral neuropathy,PVD, etc. Just passed Dec. 14th 2016. We put in for his Agent Orange and 100% disability. He never received it. Unfortunately. He was only getting 10% disability!!! I’m sure with several of the same things from the same place it’s AO. God bless u both.

  14. Kenneth Kaylor says:

    You failed to include the 483rd EIG/EIS,Korat RTAFB on your list.We spent time TDY to every base in Thailand and worked all areas of the bases. I worked on the perimeter putting in cable for alarm system (SafeNest) for the SP towers, and was still denied because USAF conveniently lost all my records of even being therefor 4 years.

    • asknod says:

      Yep. I did and I apologize. But note that I did mention there were probably others that I failed to include. One big one was the 1st Mob. GEEIA-Greatest Electrical Engineers in Asia. They set up the TACAN at Phu Pha Te that the NVA took out in 68 at Lima Site 85. They did a lot of the TRC 28 on top of Skyline Ridge above Long Tieng several times including when the gooks wiped it out St. Valentine’s Day 1971. I can’t cite everything, Ken. Some of it hasn’t even been released yet. My non-disclosure agreement ends in September 2020 (fifty years). Come back for the after action report then.

    • Fred Marvin says:

      As a Quality Control NCO for the 1987 Communications Squadron at NKP from January 1968 to June 1972 (was on station for five years), I worked with GEEIA installers regularly and can attest to the fact that they worked all locations of NKP. That includes on the perimeter and in locations well within the 500 meter Agent Orange Drift Zone that was established by the U.S Army in their tests of the sprayed areas. There were other areas that were sprayed in the less than one third of NKP that were not in the drift zone.

      • Ray Reid says:

        Do you have any photos showing the spraying? Did you actually see the spraying? Am looking for any confirmation of spraying at NKP anytime during the Mar 1970 to Aug 1971 time frame. Thanks

        • asknod says:

          Ray, all I have is my own experience up in Long Tieng (LS 20A) watching the Hmong kids spread AO/AB with bleach bottle scoops undiluted. I can say I saw NKP numerous times turning left on final from the air. It looked like Arizona in August and the surrounding civvie areas were all lush and green. AirAm had one A/C (PC-6 tail # N355F) devoted to spray poppies or control vegetation on Lima airstrip approaches.

          • Fred Marvin says:

            I did not personally see the spraying operation. We were told to stay away from the perimeter and flightline areas when the spraying took place. The other places I know on base were sprayed were because these areas were required to be completely clear of all vegetation because the grounds served as ground planes for various radio frequencies for aircraft navigation and emergency location beacons. Many other places on base were just deductions because grass would not grow there no matter what happened.

      • Stephen Bobian says:

        Good morning, My name is Stephen Bobian, and I’m a Veteran Service Officer with Jackson County, located in Medford, OR. I’m working with a veteran who is experiencing complications that are a result of exposure to the Herbicide Agent Orange. He was a member of the 2863rd GEEIA SQ, and had been sent to Thailand TDY. We are having extreme difficulties finding TDY orders, or even a basic job description of GEEIA that would place him in the parameters of the Thai AFB. If anyone has any sort of TDY orders, or are willing to attest to the fact that GEEIA often was on the parameters where Agent Orange was sprayed that would be extremely helpful. Please respond via email.

        • asknod says:

          Dear Mr. Bobian, Try this one out.
          I do hope someone chimes it to help on this. I do know all SEA GEEIA was out of Clark. They were listed as 1st Mobile Communications Group under 13th AF. or affectionately called the 1st Mob. Try googling them. I found this instantly

          • Weeks, David Jamison (Dave) CTR USARMY SMDTC (US) says:


          • Stephen Bobian says:

            Thank you so much for the information, I’m unable to get ahold of the veteran, we sent away for his military files months ago. Last I heard he was undergoing radiation treatment, and have not been able to get him on the phone since. I’m gathering everything I can to show that he was exposed, I’m printing these comments, and using past BVA hearings that have been granted. I just want to get this claim sent off, we have been researching since April, I’m afraid of the worst happening to this veteran, this is why it is so important to get the claim sent off. If I send this, and the veteran passes away, it makes it so his dependent can continue following through on his behalf. If he passes and there was no claim officially filed, then his file is closed and no one can take over the claim to fight for him. Thank you so much for all the veterans pitching in, it’s truly humbling and solidifies our bond as fellow service members, and reminding the VA that THEY MADE A PROMISE AND NEED TO KEEP IT! Bravo Zulu.

        • Fred Marvin says:

          I am the Quality Control NCO who was at NKP for five years from June 1967 to June 1972. I can personally verify that GEEIA troops worked at every location on base including on the flightline and other locations where I learned decades later that it was Agent Orange was sprayed. The difficulty with GEEIA and many others at our location was that they were sent for less than 180 days at a time and thus were not recorded as being stationed there . TDY orders were thrown around like leave records and were not recorded in permanent records in most cases. The same happened to those who were sent TDY to Vietnam. The jobs of GEEIA were to install electronic equipment, electrical and telephone cable and systems, and other equipment not installed by Red Horse (building construction) and other similar organizations. Those equipments at NKP were often on the flightline or other areas sprayed. No one knew of the spraying operations except when the spraying took place and everyone was evacuated during that time.

          I finally got my ten percent last December for ischemic heart disease. I am still fighting for a higher percentage, for peripheral vascular disease, and for more than two decades of angina pain. This GEEIA member would most likely have been sent to every base in Thailand where they also sprayed Agent Orange in similar places. He, like me, probably never recognized the effects of the contact immediately like those who were sprayed directly, but they are there nonetheless, and these symptoms make life very difficult. I wish him luck.

  15. Gary Rich says:

    Station at 31st field hospital, Camp Friendship, Korat, Thailand The hospital was positioned in the corner of camp friendship, and my hooch was right across the street. Everything was defoliated around the area and I have very good photographic evidence, and have submitted all of it some years ago, I have suffered prostate cancer, and one and a half years ago head hard attack, and diagnosed with coronary artery disease, I have since filed claims on both and I’m now, TDIU (Totally and Permanently Disabled and Individually coronary artery disease, I have since filed claims on both and I’m now TDIU (Totally and Permanently Disabled and Individually Unemployable), rated at 70%, paid at 100% and get full benefits. It took me about 6 years to get this settled, and when I initially filed, yes, it was just perimeter guards, etc., now it is changing, slowly, and there are those of us with MOSs and AFSCs, that placed near the perimeter. Further, all of us crossed those perimeters frequently, it is absolute BS that people have been denied for such petty rules, guidelines. Gary Rich, US Army 1966-68.

  16. Dave Conder says:

    I was a crew chief at Ubon 69/70 had to drag that damn fuel bowser full of contaminated JP-4 to burn pit on nights shift nobody I know ever wrote that down anywhere & all of a sudden I end up with type 2 diabetes out of nowhere nobody in my family ever had diabetes.

  17. Anthony sciotti says:

    They were spraying the crappie out of ubon about in 1972 and 1973 they went down with a tank truck and sprayed and it was cloudy with that junk does anyone know what it was?

    Tony Sciotti

  18. lets come together on board and beat this thing call denial if it mean marching on Washington if you know a better way call me I am ready 21 years 6 months lost wife and three kids behind agent orange 336-623-4691 336-209-4748

  19. I was stationed in Karat in 1968 1969 and Satahip camp same san I was in food service as a matter of fact I was the mess sgt we delivered chow to many of you on the perimeter I remember the 50 caliber machine gun sites my claim has been denied twice, what we need to do is flood the va with support letters from each other, call me 336-623-4691 or 336-209-4748 email do it now or we all will be gone shortly

  20. David J. Weeks (Dave) says:

    SSGT David (Dave) Weeks, 1987th Comm Sq, , R306x0 (crypto) Nakhon Phanom RTAFB (NKP), 1972-73. Denied AO claim for diabetes type 2 diagnosed formally two years ago. Was assigned as perimeter security augmentee; lived in hootch on back side next to special ops troops near the perimeter with nothing between us and the perimeter except for a machine gun bunker; exercised (jogged) on trail/road adjacent to perimeter; performed keying material changes over entire base including installations close to the perimeter; walked or rode bike daily between hootch and Task Force Alpha (also not far from perimeter). Not allowed to carry camera on-duty (90-117 hours each week – yes, no typo) but VA wants a photo of me at the perimeter. No one on either side of my family has ever been diagnosed with diabetes; was not overweight.

    • asknod says:

      I think we need to revisit augmentee duty and find the CHECO records on it. Seems every base had to use Augmented Forces. We did up at Udorn. Same deal of our barracks being about 50 feet from the perimeter and it was barren on both sides all year long. Brown dead grass/bushes.

      • Weeks, David Jamison (Dave) CTR USARMY SMDTC (US) says:


        • asknod says:

          I have a solid link up above for all tHE CHECO stuff we’ve found so far. I also wrote a letter for Jim Chevrette as he served the same place I did up at Udorn. Same barracks, Same augmentee game. Look at all of my AO posts, David. Any relation to Fred Weeks who was killed in late 71 up at Tango 11? Same AFSC in DSTE (crypto)

          • Weeks, David Jamison (Dave) CTR USARMY SMDTC (US) says:

            I have downloaded the CHECO report (years ago) but long before I developed diabetes (or at least before a formal diagnosis). Since I have no family history of diabetes a VA doctor told me that mine was likely caused by exposure to AO.

            • asknod says:

              You get that in writing with a reasoned “Rule out…” and you can win this. Look at the Nexus Bible and CAVC precedence on what they will buy (Olbert v. Brown). A nexus that reaches is toast. One that succeeds describes why the doctor feels it is probative. I pulled down several pics of NKP in 70 where it was a brown spot next to the river. Next I did a few with google earth showing it today and the last ten years at different times (i.e. winter vs Monsoon). It’s a stark difference.

              • did you win your claim for exposure to agent orange if so please call me 336-623-4691 335-209-4748

                • John Adams says:

                  Udorn Thailand, 1966-67. REDHORSE 556. Our outfit built most of the red circled area, Slept in two story barracks, right on the fence. Walked down the fence line each morning to the klong, turned right to our office, checked mail, finished my walk to the fence, turned right, down the fence to my warehouse, 50 yards behind the NCO CLUB. On denial appeal!Have a great lawyer on my case, all He does is Agent orange cases. Can reach at John Adams

          • Barbara Jean Shuler says:


    • Thomas McGinn, D.C. says:

      I was always being told I had to loose weight. I arrived at NKP weighing 217. It is in my medical record that I lost 30 pounds. In order to stay off the “fat boy program” I had to run daily. I chose the perimeter road. Other airmen ran here as well as Army SF. That road had no vegetation in the middle like the dirt roads in my neck of the woods in Utah. Nothing grew on at road. I got dust all over my boots along with mud. I took that dirt to my hootch when I returned. I even ran during the rain and wore my jungle boots in the puddles and mud. During my runs, vehicles often passed me as I ran with dust and splashing water on me. I went to my hootch and rested on my bed where the sheets were brown from the dust. I wonder how long the mattresses had been there. The base laundry washed them and our uniforms. Cross contamination from dust, dirt and mud from the perimeter road and other contaminated sites must have gotten into everything at every building we frequented in base. Dioxin knows no biundrys. It must have covered my feet and inhaled into my lungs. If herbicides were used on the parimeter roads then I was exposed and the base must have been exposed as well.

      • Thomas McGinn, D.C. says:

        I failed to mention diabetes type II since age 40. Stage three kidney failure at age 60. Neuropathy in my feet and ankles and legs with deep itching, burning and numbness. Prostate problems with BPH, but no cancer. Numbness in my fingers. Difficulty walking.

      • Thomas McGinn, D.C. says:

        I was at NKP in 1974.

      • Fred Marvin says:

        One reply is above. I also add that the local nationals there were also affected. I married at NKP. My Thai wife over the years developed Type 2 diabetes and Sjogren’s Syndrome. Every Thai wife we know from most of the bases there developed diabetes and one Alzheimer’s. My wife’s family also developed diabetes. There were no family histories relating to diabetes before. The nationals there, of course, did not wear boots but open shoes everywhere.

    • nickhoffman says:

      NKP 1966-1967 as Security Police outside perimeter

      • John Adams says:

        REDHORSE 556, was a trained combat outfit. Hear after the attack in 67, many troops were armed. Traveled to NKP, Ubon, all over, by my self 6 x 6 truck. Had friends at Air America, armed the whole tour, my choice. Watched the area being sprayed, many times, watched agent orange loaded by hand, WW ll prop planes.

    • Fred Marvin says:

      Was there with the same organization for five years and left in late June 1972, I developed ischemic heart disease and neuropathy. I filed initially in 1981 and none of the AO data was released at that time. Lost that and appealed and lost. I filed again this last January and was denied. Am appealing that. Their biggest demand is that I prove I was a Security Police Augmentee. I cannot find any of the records, only a resume that I included the duty in my job description of the time. I know of your duty there completely and am willing to make a statement on your behalf, but don’t know if I trust the VA to believe it. I would also like to get a statement from anyone there who know that I was an SP augmentee or who also knew of all the areas that had been sprayed. When I left I had not been in your area of the comm center for a long time because over the five years I was there my duties took me to many more places on the base. Sorry I do not remember you just now. Forty-five years take memory away. A picture of you then might help.
      Please contact me at my e-mail address.

    • Fred Marvin says:

      As above, I was Quality Control NCO at this organization from January 1978 to June 1972 (was there for 5 years). I am familiar with SSgt Weeks job and where he lived. No one has told him that the U.S. Army tested the sprayed areas and declared the drift zone was 500 meters, not 50 feet. NKP was 1800 meters wide and the drift zones for the longest perimeters left the base with only 800 meters width not in the drift zone. Within that zone were other sprayed areas. Did anyone ever notice there were no fleets of mowers on the base to mow grass? That is because the cost of all that grounds maintenance went to the war effort. That is one reason why so many areas of the base were sprayed. SSgt Weeks job did indeed take him all over the base and the primary method of transportation on NKP was walking. Vehicles were used only when required to transport large numbers of troops and equipment.


    • asknod says:

      Please see my email sent 1441 hrs 9/24/14.

    • Lorna says:

      My father was in 1973 Comm SQ 1968-1969 and has passed with claim pending. I am trying to get information for my mom. He was also teletype maintance. lso trying to get perimeter verification.

      • asknod says:

        Thank you for your email. I am out of the office until the first week of May. I will follow up with you when I return to my office. Please email me the last of April, 1st week of May at Please include your phone number and the best time to reach you, plus any details you can provide. Thank you for your Father’s Service and I look forward to speaking with you soon.

  22. Bob Moilanen says:

    Where was the MARS station located at Takhli RTAFB?

  23. Charles W Crump says:

    My vso said there was people exposed to ao that was in the gulf of tokin. I dont have much
    confidence in him as he hasnt help me much with mt claims i have. I have hep c was in military
    hospital befor discharge for 39 days with acute hep and mono but still been denied about 4 times so far for that. We were within a 1/2 mile from the coast along with the new jersey. Got ringing in my ears so bad i can hardly here and got arthritis really bad in about every joint. He said that was from ao so was just wondering if he knows what he is talking about. Thanks for any info. Charles CrumpBeen fighting va since 2004 but not giving up. take care and god bless you for all the help you are doing for the vets

    nOD SAYS
    The Haas decision Is a “Welcome to the VA” wakeup call. VA effectively dumped all the Blue water Navy in the trashcan and skated. I hope you can find something here to win with, sir.

  24. AZeeJensMom says:


    DM2 is one of those conditions that don’t fall into remission. You have it or you don’t. It is because of the food you are preparing and lifestyle that his blood sugar is under control —- however, even with that, those numbers can go to hell in a hand basket in a split second. It would be the same with hypertension, as long as the person is taking their meds and following a BP friendly diet, the BP numbers usually remain constant and within range, unless a major blow-up occurs in the way of a heart attack, stroke or other idiopathic consequence.

    For example, my DH has cirrhosis as a result of HepC infection. Within a few hours last year he developed a condition called thrombocyptopenia and his BP went sky-high and he had been taking his BP meds, all of his meds actually. AT the ER, it was determined he had suffered a silent heart attack sometime in the past (we have been able to narrow the time frame down from evidence contained within his medrecs.)

    Bottom line, if you husband was exposed to AO and has a confirmed DX of DM2, he should high-tail it down to the nearest VSO or… many do, skip the VSO and file his claim on his own. You never know if the DM2 will exacerbate OR cause incidence of a related condition to crop up and you will want those service connected if something happens to preserve the filing date.

    Take it from a wife who has been through it……


    First, criteria has to be met that he was boots on ground in RVN or, as Nod lists, in one of the airborne units to be presumed to have been exposed. This is a must or the claim will be denied.

    VA has recently added a list of blue water ships with possible exposures to Agent Orange. It’s interesting to read through, one ship in particular that was not on the list is now — I’d like to think that us proving to the VA the ship did dock where it did on occasion with enough Veterans who filed claims and won, did the trick but we’ll never know for certain and it doesn’t matter in the whole scheme of things. What matters is that other sailors onboard who came down with illness and ailments due to exposure to the AO do receive service connection. My thought is enough Veterans filed, proved and won their claim(s) that VA had to finally say “Well, Okay…we agree that it could have happened and therefore it did.”

    Good Luck..

    Does your hubby have a Hemoglobin A1C test done every 3 months? That will tell the average blood sugar levels for the previous 3 months. This is an important indicator of average blood sugar but it doesn’t indicate damage. Be cautious of the peaks and valleys of his blood sugar readings, those are the culprits of kidney, heart, damage to the eyes, etc the docs are concerned the most with.
    Forgot to add the link:

    • Kiedove says:

      Thank you for this detailed answer. Yes, he was in-country for a year. He was diagnosed with DM2 while being treated for HCV. (Fibrosis/grade 2.) We made significant lifestyle changes and got the DM2 under control without medication. We haven’t filed any claims–the whole thing is SO overwhelming. He sees a VA doc every 6 months and they do blood work. All I know is that they are keeping tabs on his blood sugar but aren’t too concerned. But I appreciate your advice and will look into this–probably with a private doctor. His eyesight has been getting worse and I am concerned. It sounds as if he should file for AO related DM2 since we have a confirmed DX on that from 2003-2004. Thanks again. This forum gives me courage to press on.

  25. Kiedove says:

    How would one define “have” diabetes mellitus 2 for claim purposes if it was previously diagnosed but is now under control due to a strict, mostly vegetarian, diet? If my DH goes off the diet, it will return in full force. So does he have it or not? I say “yes” because while currently in remission, it’s only because I, the cook, work hard at maintaining a healthy pantry.

    nOD SAYS
    I believe your blood sugar readings would still spike on a glucose test.

    • Kiedove says:

      Also, could you post information about the blood test for PCT? When my DH was getting
      treated for HCV (non-VA), he complained constantly about the sores on his head. He was sent to a dermatologist (non-VA) who was clueless as was his private internist. After reading your asknod blog, and doing a little outside research, I now am certain that he had PCT. The mystery “sores” went away eventually after a successful year of treatment. (We just learned that his HCV genotype was 1 so he’s been fortunate indeed.)

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