service connection

Posted on September 29, 2011 by asknod
malibupx30
Registered: 11/24/08
Posts: 6
02/03/09 #1
Good morning to all.Back in Feb 2006 I filed a claim for Hep B&C with liver cirrhosis, and quite naturally I was denied.I filed a NOD with new evidence and requested a DRO hearing but was told I had to wait to file for I had not received a soc.After receiving soc(9 months later) refiled a nod and requested a VBA hearing. December of 2008 I received a call from the VA asking me if I still wanted a local DRO hearing and I said yes.
On Jan 7th 2009 went to my DRO hearing.Jan 10 Th 2009 recieved my all important letter from the VA stating, We have decided your claim is “Service Connected” for Hep B&C with liver cirrhosis at 20% disability for Hep c but 0% for liver cirrhosis. They also included the wording you may get better so things may change.
I only have 6 more weeks of shots (treatment Peg&Rib)Finally here are my questions(lol).Should I file a NOD on the cirrhosis(0%) rating before or after I finish my treatment.How did they determine my symptoms were Hep C related and not cirrhosis symptoms for both basically has the same symptoms.
What is your opinion on all of this? Thanks for any and all assistance you may give.                Julian
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NOD
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Registered: 11/22/08
Posts: 654
02/03/09 #2
Julian. This is how it works. If you look at the bottom of 38 CFR part 4, 4.114 Digestive ratings to DC 7354, it says you cannot rate Vet with DC7354 AND DC 7312(Cirrhosis).The reason being is that symptoms described in 7312 correspond with symptoms in 7354 and that would constitute pyramiding of ratings. Pyramiding is strictly prohibited in 4.14.Now, what is interesting to us is how you got SC for B(DC7345) AND C(DC7354), rather than just C. HBV, unless it is the chronic persistent version, is usually an acute disease(i.e. a disease you suffered, but subsequently recovered from). Recovery from an acute HBV infection imparts immunity and protects you from future infections. HBV is rated under DC 7345, which is almost identical to 7354. However, 7345 specifically excludes cirrhosis. If you are not currently infected and sick from the HBV, VA usually will not grant SC for it. As for the C, your most current symptoms will be what VA examiner rates you on for 2 years (usually, unless your symptoms get worse and you report it.)Chances are you will get a letter telling you you have a VA exam scheduled for Jan. 10, 2012 (in 22 months).

So, if you file a NOD on the cirrhosis(7312), what extra-schedular argument will you use to defend a higher rating that does not pyramid on the Hepatitis C(7354)? You have to give a reason for your request and it has to hold H20. Cirrhosis, by medical definition, is Stage 4 or a decompensated liver. Doing IFN TX when you are S4 is a new one on me. It would kill most of us. What we have seen VA do is change your rating from 7354 to 7312 when you reach that cirrhotic state. They may start to get away from that as more and more of us are hitting that P&T point with the HCV. Once you get P&T, they don’t bother you anymore or insist you get out of the coffin and come down for an exam- in case you “got better”.

You are being rated @ 20% now. So that means you are suffering symptoms for more than 2 weeks, but less than 4 weeks during the past 12 months. That is the only true yardstick of the rating for VA’s purposes. If you are now (currently)finding that you are losing more than 4 but less than 6 weeks per 12 months, then you need to file the NOD on the DC7354(hep C)and ask for 40%. If you are currently doing IFN TX I suspect you are in denial and doing the typical male macho thing I did until I couldn’t wake up one morning until 11AM. After 3 months of sailing the bed around the known universe, I acknowledged that maybe I was pushing the 100% envelope. Be honest about your illness to yourself. If you are entitled to it, claim it Julian.
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malibupx30
Registered: 11/24/08
Posts: 6
02/04/09 #3
Hi thank you for your fast reply.Safetydanh from the Deli forum suggested I write you.
Here is the exact wording from my SC papers,”service connection is granted for Hep C (also claimed as Hep B) with a history of cirrhosis as of Jan 10TH 2009 with a 20% rating”. So, my records do show I tested positive for Hep B antigen.I guess that means I had it and didn’t know it.
My records show( after a bunch of test) I am Geno Type 1 and stage f3 to f4.
Just a little back ground. In December of 2005 I started getting dizzy getting up and down and went to my family doctor.After a bunch of test I was told I have enlarged lymph nodes,liver,and spleen.Further test reviled Hep C and cirrhosis of the liver.Always felt tired,itching,pain on right side,lack of sleep.In April 2008 started treatment(peg&rib) which made symptoms worse.I figured after my treatment(6 more weeks) and I still feel the same or worse then maybe I should ask for a increase.Right now I am thankful I got service connected.
I understand what you are saying and I don’t want anything I am not in titled to.You made a lot of sense and hopefully I will not feel worse.Thanks for your reply and assistance.   Julian.
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NOD
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Registered: 11/22/08
Posts: 654
04/17/10 #4
Hey, Julian. Just checking up on you and wondering about your health. We worry if we don’t hear from you frequently. I see some of your posts on Delphi but you keep your cards pretty close to your chest, Cowboy! Hope all is well and you are keeping close tabs on your rating %. I’ve been in the hospital for most of last year (May to November) and just went thru another couple of operations to fix what they messed up last year. This time it was only 3 weeks , not 9 months. Anyway, let us all know you’re okay. You’re one of our Poster children- you won!
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stilwellrick
Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 8
04/26/10 #5
manager, name here is Rick. Need to ask some questions,but when I click on Ask Nod questions I get a message saying that whay I am looking for cant be found. Feel certain its on this end but I need help. Thanks.  Rick
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AZeeJensMom
Moderator
Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 94
04/27/10 #6
Rick, I sent you a private message with instructions on how to post a new thread…..Hope it helps.
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shplimp1111
Registered: 03/11/10
Posts: 2
04/29/10 #7
shplimp here..new to the site but very gratefull for all of the great info..I am waiting for my initial decision for hepc..just got the 30 day notice..keeping my fingers crossed..Thanks to you guys and 18 months of homework I feel I submited the best package I could..thanks for everything
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NOD
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Registered: 11/22/08
Posts: 654
05/01/10 #8
Dear Sir,Thank you for letting us know we are providing something useful for Vets. Most of us here have been through the VA hamburger machine a couple of times and that gives us some insight as to what you will be encountering. If your case has a solid foundation with nothing queer in there then you’ll win. Remember that the “VA examiners” who do your initial rating are young punk kids that have never been near gunpowder. I guess there are a few Vets who have been hired who may be raters, but I believe the number is insignificant. They usually twist the facts around to make you look far worse morally than you really are. Be prepared for that. Also, be prepared for a denial at the VARO level. This is very common and almost to be expected. If you truly prepared for this as you said, then you may very well succeed. I started in 94, gave up. and then started again in 2007 and won at the RO level after 2 nexus and an Independent Medical Opinion (IMO). The IMO backfired on the VA and I won. 17 months– and without my VSO who told me I was going to lose. There is no reason you can’t win unless you simply don’t have a doctor, a nexus from him and are presently infected with the disease. If it (the disease) has gotten progressively worse since you got out, then they can date its onset to within a year or so of when you contracted it or started exhibiting symptoms. I had high ALT (SGPT) readings in the mid 100s for 20 years before I came down with PCT. By then it was a no brainer. Good luck with your claim sir and remember we’re here if you need anything. Thank you also for your service to our Country.
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hearing or not

Posted on September 29, 2011 by asknod
stilwellrick
Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 8
04/27/10 #1
Hello, name here is Rick. Just got my Hep-C service connected,and rated at 10%. based on the letter from the comp/pension DR. I do believe I meet the criteria for at least 20% and was thinking of asking for a hearing with a DRO. just to express why I think this. If I have read things right, it will not effect a future appeal. (within the time frame)What would you suggest.  Thank You.  Rick
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AZeeJensMom
Moderator
Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 94
04/28/10 #2
Hi Rick….Good deal on the sc for Hep.To get a higher rating, you are going to need solid medical evidence to back yourself up.    You have 1 year to appeal the decision.   Medical records and a doctors statement are going to be your best defense to get a higher rating.

If you haven’t yet done so, take a look to the left under Federal Code, Part 4, Chapter 4.114, scroll down to dc 7354….you’ve probably already seen this….it’s a guideline and if your medical records substantiate a higher rating, then request the DRO review.   Having a copy of your doctors statement and copy of any updated medical records on hand to prove your point would be a good thing.   As for future appeal rights, a DRO wouldn’t affect your appeal rights just so long as you don’t miss deadlines to file.

There is more information than I’ve presented here, and I’m certain someone with more expertise will be stopping by shortly.
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RobD1956
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Registered: 11/22/08
Posts: 31
04/28/10 #3
If you have a nexus from your Dr saying that the condition is worsening by all means. In order to get a higher percentage you have to show by biopsy or CT imaging that your condition is worse. And merits a higher percentage. Like a dx for Varcies acid reflux disease or increased liver damage. I am held at 10% for HCV myself.  As of the 1st of Apr received a 0% for cirrhosis so becareful. The AMC is dening quite a number of claims as of late. I have all the mentioned issues and waiting a revised decision as of this time based on the new evidence. I’ll let you know how it goes. Then you can make an informed decision.
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stilwellrick
Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 8
04/28/10 #4
I appreciate your time. Thanks for the info.         Rick
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AZeeJensMom
Moderator
Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 94
04/28/10 #5
You are very welcome.Good Luck to you.
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hep c

Posted on September 29, 2011 by asknod
pmiller389
Registered: 04/13/09
Posts: 3
04/13/09 #1
I was in the navy 1967-71.Did not go two Vietnam.I was at a test center and did go out
on carriers many times to test equipment, but never very far from USA.Have many chronic diseases.have type 2 diabetes,hep c, liver disease( took treatment but didn’t work),Hypertension,peripheral & autonomic neuopathy .I applied for va disability
about 6 years ago but was denied because my record showed no liver infections during
service time. I appealed didnt work.I am on ss disability.I see where people are winning
on the air gun injections, which I certainly remember.But unfortunately around 1972,
I did experiment with iv drugs a few times( what a mistake).I havent told many people
because im not proud of it. Is there any hope of getting va disability.
thanks .paul
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NOD
Avatar / PictureManager
Registered: 11/22/08
Posts: 654
04/17/10 #2
Dear Paul, I apologize for not picking up on your post earlier. I was in the Seattle VAMC for most of 2009. I had several operations to save my life and finally am back on the mend. From what you wrote, I can tell you getting a rating from the VA is going to be a real challenge. You won’t get your foot in the door just on the jet guns. I would suggest you seek out a VA specialist attorney. He can survey your claim and look for any potential avenues for a win. The law limits him to 20% of any money you recover. That’s fair when you consider most attorneys get 33-40%. It also frees you up to go on with your life while he searches for loopholes. That’s about the best advice I have to offer. Feel free to come back and ask more questions- and again, I apologize for being tardy on our response.
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permanent disabilty

Posted on September 29, 2011 by asknod
bluewater
Registered: 03/02/09
Posts: 3
03/03/09 #1
I was granted I/U 3/16/08.  My prior s/c is 10% tinnitus, 50% ptsd, 20% hep c.  I went on a va clinical trial with alinia and soc treatment 8/08.  After 24 weeks and a hospital stay due to sides from medication was taken off tx 1/20/09.  My question to you is how would you suggest I tackle making my s/c permanent?  Should I wait till the VA contacts me for a follow up, or send them a letter now?  Still am not working, and am feeling worse now then when on tx.  As all no this tx is brutal.  I was putting up with the sides hoping fo svr, but no such luck.  Stage 3.  Thanks much  Ron
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NOD
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Registered: 11/22/08
Posts: 654
03/03/09 #2
Dear Ron, Getting info out of some of you Vets is sometimes like prying teeth out of live crocodiles. You have done a marvelous job of condensing it down to the smallest space I’ve seen yet. Allow me to expand it a bit. Individual Unemployment was granted 3/08. I get fuzzy here. 50/20/10= 64% (net 60%), but you state it as a “prior rating”. Does this mean you have had a newer rating since that date and now? Ok- off TX and still not SVR. If you are feeling worse now, then your rating is not commensurate with your symptoms. Would that be a fair assessment? Are you familiar with Chapter 4 Diagnostic Codes (to wit DC 4.114 digestive system)? Check that and see where you fall in the 7354(hep c). Also see where you are on the PTSD. You will never get to 100% by assembling your rating % in bits and pieces of 50s, 40s, 20s and 10s. It takes another 90% rating on top of a 70%( say for PTSD) to get to 100%. Be realistic. You need a 100% schedular rating on one illness alone to really get there. You can attain this via the TDIU route, but it is arduous. Are you over 55? This is the real litmus test for beginning the P&T assault. You also need good medical records to get there- ones that clearly show your condition is static and no future improvement is contemplated. This, too, must be in your med recs. Look at 3.327 regarding reexaminations. It clearly goes over everything that concerns what you are asking. I see where they (VA) could conceivably give you the bum’s rush and reduce your PTSD to get you below the 60% you need to keep the TDIU. Don’t think for a moment that they wouldn’t resort to that one. I see a need to bump that Hep rating up to 40, or better yet 60%, to protect the IU. Or bump the PTSD up to 70%. That would be difficult and I don’t know what your GAF score is right now. The tinnitus is maxed so there’s no help there. It appears to boil down to the hep, sir. Without cooking the books, at stage 3, you must have some issues beginning to pile up that would easily put you into the 40 to 60 range. My binoculars are foggy so I can’ tell from here. Getting to the magic 100 permanently will, at a minimum, require a two year wait as you can see by the info in 3.327. It may even entail 5 years unless you hit S4 soon and have collateral assaults like PN, cirrhosis, dysthemia, DM2 and so on. Again, I ask- over 55? I’m 58. One shot of rat piss and everything went haywire, but the AIH was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Everything meaning my PCT got worse, fibro, cryo, brain bozos, fatigue- basically near constant debilitating symptoms. End result was a 100% rating to begin with. As things went south, I asked for P&T 6 months later. I filed for hardship as the house and my health were in a race to see who would go down first. They gave me the P&T 1/21 so my son can get DEA(he’s 20 now). That’s my guess on their generosity. My medrecs adequately support the P&T. S3G4, ALT usually around 250 with occasional spikes into the 600s. I’m on permanent prednisone/ Imuran now to keep the AIH from finishing what the Hep C hasn’t done already. I’m gonna have to say your best bet is a combo of over 55, rotten med recs,up the hep to 60, file for a lot of secondaries, and a Doc willing to state your shelf life is less than a Hostess Twinkie.Then, while you have them on the ropes, slip in the request for P&T. Just one Vet’s opinion here. My crystal ball is foggy without more input. I would never go for P&T just on the TDIU. Get there if possible via 100% schedular if you can. Our prayers are with you, Ron, so you’ve got that going for you. Take two of the attached and schedule an appointment with my receptionist in the morning. AmenAttached Images:
Click image for larger version - Name: fukitol.JPG, Views: 10, Size: 33.56 KB
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bluewater
Registered: 03/02/09
Posts: 3
03/04/09 #3
Wow nod I was not expecting such a detailed, knowledgeable, and fast responce.  As you can see I am new here.  Thank You.  I have to digest everything you said,  and look up all the things you told me to check.  I am 60 years old.  The I/U brought me to a 100% money wise, but I know it is not permanent.  I am not sure when they review my case time wise.  That is why I was asking you should I prepare and submit paper work now for permanent s/c or wait till they contact me.  Can you get permanent on  I/U and 60% other ratings??  I will due the homework you gave me.  Thanks again!!  Ron
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NOD
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03/08/09 #4
3.327 is the arbiter of the P&T. You can get there via IU, but it requires medrecs to prove it- good ones. Most P&Ts are done on the 100% schedular ratings path- not all- but a lot. I see a lot w/ the 70% on one rating like PTSD, and maybe a 60% on the hep. All the little 10s and 20s are window dressing and don’t really do much unless they are secondarys to the primary ratings. So Tinnitus and hemmeroids are not gonna help one bit. Does any of that help?
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bluewater
Registered: 03/02/09
Posts: 3
03/09/09 #5
OK, yes that all helps, but you still have not answered my question.  Should I wait till the VA contacts me for the evaluation, and continue to build my records or write them a letter,  and submit all forms to try and accomplish it now.  Began I/U 4/1/08.  I should be in the 60% hep c rating after reading the regs.  Glad the site is up and running again.  Thks Ron
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NOD
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Registered: 11/22/08
Posts: 654
03/09/09 #6
Brain fart, Ron. Hyperspazzed out and didn’t finish the project. I would get the 60% on the hep, assuming you’ve got the medrecs. to prove it. Big item is the time loss factor. Unmentioned, but important is weight loss of 10% of what your highest was in the last 12 months. Start packing your pockets with rolls of pennies, Ron. Anemia isn’t mentioned either, but it is a determinative tool. The acid test is all the words in combo. Lots of vets go in and say: “Hey, Doc. Yeah I’m doin’ okay. Not hitting on all eight, but what the hey. Could be worse. How about them Cardinals, Huh? Who woulda thunk it.” Start saying things like RUQPain, fatigue. Sleeping all day. Get big on the “bed rest”. Mention them words!!! Get it in your med. recs-written down, Ron. Get the 60% on the Hep(if there’s no hope on inflating the GAF- and don’t lie about it.)If you ever screw up and lie about anything and they catch you, they will make life miserable for you forever. You should never lie about anything unless it involves a pending visit from your mother in law. Anything is legal then. Lying is a indicator of improper upbringing, gentle reader. You are clearly not of that ilk so we will not discuss that any further. Look up 38 CFR part 4. 4.114 and look at the DC 7354. It discusses all the details of what = % rating. It is what they will use to rate you and its based on what you report to them.After you attain that higher rating, we will have another attitude talk and we will teach you how to use the “Force”. Work on you slice, too. It’s really ugly.
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NOD
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Registered: 11/22/08
Posts: 654
04/17/10 #7
Well, Ron. It’s been a year and some change.I hope you are not any worse for the wear and have upped your ratings % on the HCV. With all the injured vets coming home from Iraq and Af-stan, it’s causing a large backlog everywhere. I hope you claim is now far along in the process. I filed an NOD for a higher % on my PCT right after I got the original rating in 10/2008. I just received my new rating(I won!). 16 months. I assume, if you filed for a higher rating after we talked last year, that you are still in limbo. Hang in there. With the government involved in 2 wars simultaneously, you can only assume its going to be slow. Perhaps our illustrious VASEC Shinseki will hire more Loompah-Loompahs or train the ones he has to be more efficient. Best of Luck.
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Urgent Help Pending Letter

Posted on September 29, 2011 by asknod
fgrouell
Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 5
02/13/09 #1
I was a corpsman with a service medical record entry for needle stick on a Hepatitis ward.My Hep C treatment of Interferon, Procrit, and Ribovarin led to multiple disorders during treatment including leg and heart arterial blockages requiring stents, diabetes, and now COPD/Emphysema requiring constant O2.

I have been fighting for 100% SC Disability since 2004. I have successfully earned 10% Hep C  and 50% Depression 10% Hypothyroidism secondary to Hep C.

I’m currently seeking DRO and plan to submit additional evidence from my Infectious disease doctor who has offered to help with a letter.

Will this letter provide for a nexus?

                Sir,

 

 

If the letter is to be instrumental in the VA determination at the ratings board it must satisfy the following guide lines:

The letter must in each case list the individual issues reading “Secondary to Hep C” and optionally an explanation or journal reference supporting the statement. In fact it need only relate that these issues are secondary to the Hep C and its medicinal treatment. It should NOT address severity, or percentage of effect of the diseases. The rating board will determine those issues. Below is a working example. The document maybe on letterhead or preferably recorded in my medical file under the doctors progress notes.

 

                Please notify me upon completion @ 301-357-4640 or Email fgrouell@yahoo.com and I will obtain a copy from medical records.

 

 

The pt’s primary diagnosis is Hep C as well as the following illnesses are secondary to the Hep C.

                A             Depression as secondary to the Hep C

                B             Hypothyroidism as secondary to the Hep C

                C             Diabetes Type II as secondary to the Hep C

    D             Hypertension as secondary to the Hep C

                E              Coronary Artery Disease as secondary to the Hep C

                F              Peripheral Arterial Disease as secondary to the Hep C

 

                The Interferon & Procrit from the Hep C treatment caused depression and hypothyroidism leading to inactivity and diabetes as well as elevated cholesterol resulting in Hypertension, Coronary Artery Disease and Peripheral Arterial disease. All of these issues are at this time being treated with either surgical procedures or medications.

                The patient is considered unemployable at this time.

 

                               

 

 

                Thanks again for your repeated effort to help with this project.

 

 

Sincerely,

 

                        Fred Grouell 

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NODManager
Registered: 11/22/08
Posts: 654
02/15/09 #2
Dear sir, As you have a 10% SC for hepatitis, it seems pretty clear cut that you want to ask for a 100% schedular rating for your hep, but the symptoms you list aren’t the ones for Hep C. I know how devastating Interferon can be. It fired up my AIH like a napalm strike and gave me fibro/cryo, permanent sore throat, and a bunch of other little goodies.If your hep is what you and your doctor can honestly refer to as near constant debilitating symptoms( 24/7) then you will be rated at 100%. Your doctor needs to write that out and also recommend bed rest as needed for constant fatigue. Your symptoms for 100% must include right upper quadrant pain(RUQP) malaise, nausea, vomiting, and weight loss. You may have to file for all those 2ndary symptoms and then summarize with a request for 100% schedular rating. Do not ask for TDIU.

If and when they rate you 100% then you wait 6 months and file for Permanent and Total. Contact me on my private e mail here for more detailed info @ NOD.

If you do this right, and they still haven’t done the Decision Review yet, you can amend it and stick in another VCAA notice prior to that decision. Otherwise, you can amend the claim when you file the Form 9. Are you representing yourself or do you have a VSO?
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fgrouell
Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 5
09/19/09 #3
As you’ll notice this comment is all most 1yr later. Let me share this with all. Last year I had an appeal for increase due to obesity and diabetes. As well I ha file a DRO. My advocate, the AL, called me last week Thursday and told me I had been awarded 100% service connected for depression. Needles to say the world stopped. Several people had loaned me money over the years to get by and I began calling them and told them of the news and that I would be able to repay them. My children were estranged by a divorce in 1996 that resulted in their mother hidding them from me. I’d had no contact untill recently just before she died. They turned up in Washington state quiet a distance from Maryland and to far for me to travel on my income. MY son, last seen at age thirteen, was now in jail and needed legal assistance but had no money. My daughter left home at 14 and finished high scholl on her own. Although we had conversated we were not “connecting”. My son and I communicated by prison phone. My daughter has enrolled in college courses that I committed myself to paying when I was advised of my new rating decision. The back pay alluded to by my AL rep would be enough to travel there on and help her through college and retain a lawyer for my son. I told them of the medical coverage and other benifits we would recieve. Basically I had become a saint over night in their eyes. I was instructed to wait for the letter and then come to get my ID card. When the letter arrived thursday, a week later, it said nothing of an increase. I immediatly began tring to contact my rep and ended up traveling to their office to address nthe issue. They said they were very sory but their had been a mistake. Turns out some one rated the RDO before completing all claim increases. As such the RDO had been voided and would be readdresed in the future. WTF WTF WTF Here I am with a mental disability getting this kind of head trip. I’d rather put a bullet in my head than have to tell my daughter her schjool plans are now off and my son I can’t afford that lawyer and my friends I’m  wrong during these hard financial times a nd they won’t get the money. As well I had quit my menial part time job that was helping me get by. WTF WTF WTF I’m in shock right now and just don’t know what to do. This is so surreal.
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AZeeJensMom
Moderator
Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 94
09/19/09 #4
What a horrible experience.    I’m not sure what the next step is but, I am certain someone will come along shortly with some feedback.
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fgrouell
Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 5
09/25/09 #5
It’s been almost a week and I’ve heard nothing. Has no one been in this situation before?
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hcvet
Moderator
Registered: 11/22/08
Posts: 48
09/28/09 #6
I’m in shock right now and just don’t know what to do. This is so surreal.

Turns out some one rated the RDO before completing all claim increases. As such the RDO had been voided and would be readdresed in the future.

WOW, This is crazy, have you learned anything more? My guess, you will get the increase, it’s delayed due to paperwork, from the sounds of it.I would also report it to the OFFICE OF INSPECTOR GENERAL No sense upsetting you like this. So sorry you had to go through it and hope I’m right.

Keep us posted, sorry it took so long, been off line with a virus, had to switch PCs.
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fgrouell
Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 5
10/04/09 #7
It has now been two weeks since I was informed of the change back to 60%. My VA rep sounded encouraging last week but that’s probably smoke. When should I consider my self as having been thrown to the wolves, 1 day, 1 week, 1 month? I like the idea of the IG but I’m afraid any formal questions at this point might not be in my best interests. I’m thinking 30 – 60 days then start the official inquiries, IG and my Senator, Miklauski. I definitely think any thing past 90 days deserves scrutiny. Do you have any thoughts on this plan of action?
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NODManager
Registered: 11/22/08
Posts: 654
10/04/09 #8
Fred. I don’t quite know what to say. I’ve never been in this predicament nor have I known anyone else who has been. I know VA makes some royal mistakes , but I’ve never heard of one like this.I think I would go for the congressional inquiry ASAP to let VA know you’re between a rock and a hard place. This is not good.

A postscrip to this is Fred got Monty’s cookie jar.  We worked with him and pointed him in the right direction. The VA finally caved in and gave him about 180%. Jez. Sometimes you get pissed with how they screw you. If You ain’t no Senator’s son like the CCW song, you have to find one. Fred did and the she performed admirably.

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Searching for Info?

Posted on September 29, 2011 by asknod
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NOD
Avatar / PictureManager
Registered: 11/22/08
Posts: 654
01/23/09 #1
12/10/08         #1
Dear Vets, we hope you find useful info on this site that can help you with your claim. If there is anything you need as far as case law to help you file or questions about your specific claim, please leave us a message as a new post on the item that most closely approximates your issue or claim. We promise to get back to you one hell of a lot faster than VA ever will and our answers typically are more geared to you. We do not have an agenda; our hope is to give you what you need to win or provide you with an avenue to information we lack. We seem to have it up and running and spam proof. Our old site lacked some of the amenities this one affords, so feel free to stumble through here with us until we figure it out,too. Remember, all HCV vets probably have cognitive brain dysfunction, old timers disease, and other issues that drive young people to distraction so bear with us. You may temporarily stump us with some request, but we won’t ever give you advice that will kill your claim. VA cannot make that statement. We are not doing this legally as we have no VSO standing. Everything we suggest is what you would be able to glean from 38 CFR or 38 USC. Best of luck from the Padewans of HCVETS.
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marlinadams58
Registered: 08/03/09
Posts: 2
08/22/09 #2
In West Germany, 1971-1975 I’m a 58 year old male, been going to Va Hospital, for the last two years. My hand are detiorated from Arthritis, Deng Arthritis and joint disease. Depression, insommia. My first visit, they ask me if I receive blood in service, or drug user. I said No. They finally ruled I have Hep c 1b. the arthritis, if from the virus. I hurt all over. There trying to see i I past the test for the treatment. Can I file for sc. I had dental work, surgrey, and I was army mechanic. I nick my knuckle and finger. The blood on the rags, was still alive for 16 hours. We shared rags. I also, had air gun vac. I have seen for my records. Do you think I have a case. This virus, was a great problem in Germany at the time I service. I have a clean record, except with a fight one time. Please give me your opinion.  It took the VA two years to find out, I have Hep C.  What with that?
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marlin adams
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NOD
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Posts: 654
08/24/09 #3
Dear Mr. Adams, Here’s what I suspect will happen. The VA is notorious for trying to deny, deny, deny. I see them trying the same scheme on you. You need something in you medical records that supports a theory of blood exposure. We all know the sanitary procedures employed in the 70’s- there were none! Moving on to the jet gun immunizations, it’s plausible in the eyes of the VA, but they also are fond of pointing out that there are no confirmed cases of Hep C being transmitted from Vet to Vet via the jetgun. I know they occassionally let a case slip in and pay it, but that is very rare. Arthritis is considered a secondary condition to Hep. C , but you would have to prove the Hep C was Service Connected (SC) before they will pay you for the Arthritis. You mentioned that you had surgery after you mentioned Dental Work. What, exactly, did that entail? Did it involve a transfusion? You will get no sympathy from the VA for nicks and cuts while doing your job as a mechanic. I doubt it is in you medical records. Most Vets don’t run to the ER for a small laceration when their wrench slips. Again, documentation is the thing most Vets lack to make these claims stick. The fact that the VA found out you had Hep C in 2 years is amazing. You usually have to bring them the evidence of the infection! Remember, you will need 3 things to make this claim a winner. You have 1 and possibly 2. You have the disease and you may have contracted it while in the service. That one is iffy. The third, and most important, will be in getting your Doctor to state that he believes you got this disease in the service. He can determine this in a variety of ways( by the age of the infection-for one. Getting the Doc to do this is hardest part. Some are real buttheads about it while others can’t wait to sign the paper. There are many articles concerning this subject here at this website. Read them all carefully and see what you can find out. Your hardest thing will be to prove it happened while you were a GI. Best of Luck and ask us if there is something we can help you with. Nod and his merry little band of munchkins.
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marlinadams58
Registered: 08/03/09
Posts: 2
09/18/09 #4
How do you get help from NOD in filing a claim? Who do you call, and where to you go. This is to much and need help.
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marlin adams
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NOD
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Posts: 654
09/20/09 #5
I do not personally file claims for Veterans. I would have no time to research the laws governing claims. Additionally, I’m a Stage 3 Grade 3 Hepper myself and in rotten health. I wish I had the resources to help you. I would ask you to visit the beginning of this site and review the information I have posted there. You will find it useful. If you still find it insurmountable, you might approach a Veteran Service Officer from one of the approved organizations which represent veterans for free such as the VFW or the American Legion. There are many others and they all have offices adjacent to the Regional VAROs. I wish you success in your fight. Read the fine print from the VA thoroughly. Get your medical records and military records before you start this. You need ammo to fight them. They have this info and so should you. The info you need to obtain these records is all there at the front page on the left hand side. NOD
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va hosp and hep c

Posted on September 29, 2011 by asknod
Author Comment
skunk
Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 2
07/30/09 #1
i found out in 2001 i had hep.c and at one time had hep b. around 1995 i had a series of g.i. tests done ,colonoscopy, endoscopy and several other tests.i had these tests done and they did remove some polyps. what i am wondering is was i at risk for exposure during these tests say around that time period.
i have had hiatial hernia and tubes with camera were put in and samples taken in my abdomen.
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NOD
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Posts: 654
08/15/09 #2
You would have a really hard time proving that one in court. It would come under 38USC1151 and the hurdle to get over is proving that the facilities were unsanitary. You have to catch them in the act or prove that others were infected with the same diseases at the same time. If you can prove that, you have a case. Nod
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skunk
Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 2
08/15/09 #3
thanx i did not think i had much of  a case and i do believe the hosp i go to is a pretty good one . they seem to know what they are doing.
i just thought maybe the instruments they used would be universally flawed and be the culpret.
but i guess that would be kind of like the jet gun thing.
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NOD
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Posts: 654
08/16/09 #4
I’m sure the instruments/(the butt tractor)are quite modern and were cleaned to the best of the ability of the idiot who didn’t read the instructions. That I will believe. VA is a stand up place to go for medical. That I strongly believe. They are stretched to the max to provide us with what we need. The fellows that work there are fairly devoted to helping us. After 2 + months in the Seattle VAMC with a bunch of problems, I met just about everyone that worked on the 3rd floor. They are wonderful people and would cut off their left nut for you. I met about 3 or 4 buttheads who were bound and determined to look at their glass as being half-empty. You can’t rearrange that kind of thinking unless you have a shrink and 10 empty years on your hands. But 3 or 4 out of 300 or 400 are very low odds. I suspect you’ll find it’s worse in private hospitals. Most of the nurses had served in the services and felt some kind of empathy for you. Some were combat medics-why they’d come back for more eludes me, but the devotion to duty is enough to bring tears to your eyes. Witness mine. Rest assured that any time they stick something in you, the risk of infection goes up 1000%. You can’t go through life worried about getting your hands dirty, Skunk. Be a big tough Vet and you’ll get respect. Shoot, Vets stand head and shoulders above all those wanna be wusses who wished they’d been one of the Few. Nod
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Letter 3 arrives–Azeejensmom’s saga to SC

Posted on September 29, 2011 by asknod
  These are part of the lost year. I’d get out of the hospital only to succumb to Peritonitis again… and again… and again… all the way through Thanksgiving. I came home o/a the first of December 09 but went back in 3/15/10. This disease sucks.
AZeeJensMom
Moderator
Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 94
02/13/09 #1
Geeeeez……..How many of these “we are still processing your claim” letters does a person receive before the claim is processed?

Thought they had 90 days to adjudicate an TDIU claim.

In fine print, on top of the App for Increased Comp, it does state that by completing this form, you are claiming total disability.

Sure hope this doesn’t drag on for another 6 years.

Arghghghgh!!!!!!!
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NOD
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Registered: 11/22/08
Posts: 654
02/15/09 #2
90 days is the law. 90 days in the Hole. Usually the last 30 days involves heavy binocular usage. I am in the same Hole. March 9 will equal 90 days. We will await your good news! Good Luck. Take two capsules (left) and call when it arrives.
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AZeeJensMom
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Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 94
02/16/09 #3
When does the 90 day count start?It will be interesting to see which date they apply the TDIU to, the date he actually began receiving SSD due to 100% or, the date they received the App for the TDIU.  Reading the CFR’s, it could be either.

First, we need the hen to lay the egg.
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AZeeJensMom
Moderator
Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 94
06/29/09 #4
Well, no letter arrived this month -and, today we find out that my husband’s TDIU claim file is “closed” decided and needed 3 signatures.   The decision is in the US Mail, or so they say.Figure they need 3 signatures so #3 can make sure #2 made sure #1 did their job correctly.

Curiosity has got the kitty….do you think that’s why 3 signatures were needed?    We’re keeping a positive attitude about the whole process, hoping that 70% went to 100% with some retro in there.

In the meantime, we await the BVA to do their thing and get the issues on remand answered and dealt with.   We have done our part.    Rep thought once the 2 files were “joined” the appeal may start moving along (appeal is on HepC and related issues).

I can say one thing for certain, if there is anyone who needs a helping hand on a claim, I’ll be there.   You can count on that.

Lori 🙂

Thoughts are welcome.
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Need adivise.. husband passed away..

Posted on September 29, 2011 by asknod

This is part of the lost year for me in the VAMC trying to stay alive while the VAMC tried to kill me.

MplsWidow
Registered: 06/13/09
Posts: 2
06/13/09 #1
My husband was a Marine did boot camp at Paris Island in 1973..he was only there a week shy of 3 months.. he still got a honorable discharge.. he found out he had hcv in the 90’s.. had first liver transplant in 2006 second transplant this May, passed away a week after..we always knew he got hcv from the jet gun.. he was not a IV drug user, never had any tattoo’s nor had any surgeries or blood transfusions before he was told he had hcv… he was geno type 3a.. The VA told me I was not intitled to any benefits..I knew that since he did not do the three months.. but if I can prove service related I might be intitled to something.. they would have buried him at Fort Snelling but he wanted to be cremated and be home.. so I have his ashes they payed for nothing but gave me his flag.. what do I do? his liver doctor will write a letter for me and I have researched… We have a 12 yr old but she is a relative we have raised and have custody of since she was 3.. do you think I have a chance? He never used them for any thing and wanted his medical care done by the U of M..
Thanks for any ideas or tips.
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AZeeJensMom
Moderator
Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 94
06/14/09 #2
Please accept my condolences on the loss of your husband.Unfortunately, I don’t have an answer for you on how to approach this issue but, I do know somebody will come along shortly to offer you thoughts and perhaps some advice on your questions.

Again, I send my heartfelt sympathy to you and your family.
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orfinanee
Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 2
06/14/09 #3
I am very sorry that you lost your husband because of HCV. My husband died in 2002 from liver cancer. He had filed a claim for service connection for his hepatitis and his claim was denied a few months before his death. I was also told I was not eligable for compensation but I filed a claim for DIC because his hepatitis was service connected and the cause of his death. I filed within a year after his death, was denied, appealed their decision and my appeal was remanded in Feb 2008, so I am still waiting.You have 1 year from the date of your late husbands death to file a claim for DIC. If you decide to file a claim with VA, get all your ducks in a row 1st. On the left of this page you will see links to print VA Forms.
1) Use SF 180 to request a copy of all your husbands military medical records (including his immuniztion records) from the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis, MO.
2) Request copies of all your husbands private medical records, including lab reports from as far back as you can.
3) Have your husbands liver doctor use the Nexus Form to write his letter for you. Research this site and the HCVet site for the do’s and don’ts for this letter.
4) Use the Appl. for DIC, Death Pension 21-534 when you feel ready to file your claim and send it to your local VA Regional Office  (include a copy of your husbands death cert. and a statement claiming that your husband was infected with the hepatitis virus during service that ultimetly took his life).

I hope this helps some. I know your heart is broken and the future looks very empty. No matter what you decide to do about filing a claim, I walked that road and you can call on me anytime….
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AZeeJensMom
Moderator
Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 94
06/14/09 #4
Orfinanee….Thank you for coming along and offering MplsWidow some personal advice.

I’ve thought about you all day MplsWidow.    My heart and soul go out to you….

Orfinanee….

There are alot of members here who can offer you some advice on your situation as well.    Not sure if its 8 or 10 years SC prior to a Veterans death (I’m going to look this up as soon as I post this), then you are entitled to much more than DIC.

Was he 100% SC?   What is the effective date of the SC?

My hearts are with you ladies.    My husband is a Vietnam Veteran, Marine Corp., and is stage 4 by recent biopsy.    We too are awaiting a BVA decision on SC for the HepC.

Many blessings to you both and to your families….
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AZeeJensMom
Moderator
Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 94
06/14/09 #5
Ladies…..Found it.    CFR 38, part 3, specifically part 3.10, paragraph (c)

It is 8 years totally disabling.    You can find a link to the CFR’s to the left under “Search”

MplsWidow…..

Had your husband filed a claim at all?    I’m not sure what the shy of 3 months deal is, but where did he go from Paris Island?    If I’m not mistaken, Geno3a is predominantly found in Southeast Asia.     Please correct me fellow members if that isn’t correct…..

Bottom line is, he was exposed somewhere along the line.    Read through Orifinanne’s response, she has been there and in the least we can through you a ladder to hold onto as you climb out of this.

Will mention one thing…..getting ALL of his medical records/private and military is very important and you would want to do that before you file a claim, if that is the way you are able to go with this.   Always, make copies of anything you send VA and always send it Certified Mail/Return Receipt or even FedEx – something where you have that signature they received it.

Regarding the 12 year old, if you have legal custody, you can file for additional comp on her behalf.   There is also Social Security available for her.    Did your husband apply and receive any Social Secuity Disability?

My thoughts and prayers are with you both….

I suspect you will receive more responses to these 2 posts ladies in the next few days…..
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orfinanee
Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 2
06/14/09 #6
Hi JensMom,
My husband was 40% SC, but not for the hepatitis. So many have helped me along the way and I would be lost without this forum. I hope you get a favorable decision from BVA and I thank you for your warm thoughts….If anything I have learned can help another wife or widow, I am happy to share it.
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MplsWidow
Registered: 06/13/09
Posts: 2
06/15/09 #7
Thank you for that info… I will send for all his medical records..I do have his liver doctor writing a letter for me..
He was on disability but I am to young to draw on it now and they told me since we did not adopt the child she is not entitled to anything even though we have full custody..
Frank never filed for anything from the Military, he assumed he was not entitled to anything since he left a week before he finished boot camp.. he does have a honorable disharge…
You are correct in saying the 3a was not as common here in the usa as 1a, and he had no tatoo’s, no transfusion (until he was already DX’d) and no surgeries until after he already knew he had it…and he was never a iv user..
and it was 30 yrs after inlisting that he was endstage… I have been told by a few not to bother with this and focus elswhere but I want to try to do this.. me and him both know this is how he got hcv and so many did.. I can’t let it go..I want them to admit it…
Thank you all for your kind words and input..
Cj
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AZeeJensMom
Moderator
Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 94
06/15/09 #8
Good Luck to you and keep us posted on your progress.Be Well.
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NOD
Avatar / PictureManager
Registered: 11/22/08
Posts: 654
06/25/09 #9
Your info is all viable and on track. The widow, as a surviving one from a Vet honorably discharged, is entitled to a funeral in a military(VA) cemetery. Arlington is so booked up now, you would have to have done something extraordinary from a combat perspective in order to get in. You are, to my knowledge, entitled to $250 (or more) to offset burial expense. You will have to check up on the current value of that. Thank you, L&T, for all you have done here while I have been out and about. Vets generally have more coming than they know, as do their spouses and children. Investigate part 3 (administrative) and look at 3.300 forward. Google VA Burial benefits- investigate!. Knowledge is power. SSD is your greatest asset as well as a VA Pension(yep. you heard me right.) File for it. If you sit and wait and build it, they won’t come. Seek them out. Nod sez Have a nice day.
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Interferon/Ribavirin treatments linked to Cancer?

Posted on September 29, 2011 by asknod
flipfarts
Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 19
05/12/09 #1
My HCV was discovered by mistake at VA hospital in 1994. Failed the 6 month 3 times a day injections of alpha interferon. Got talked into Interferon/Ribavirin injections in 2004. Almost killed me. I did not respond. I developed numerous symptoms such as tinnitus and loss of sex drive. My primary care doctor discovered lump in my neck in 2007. Diagnosed cancer with removal of my thyroid. I have been told that Interferon/Ribavirin treatments did cause cancer of the Endocrine System. I get no answers for VA doctors. My cancer is in remission for now. Is there any information on this connection? Has other veterans suffered this problem on this site? Please help me find a logical answer to this question. Thank you very much….
RMG
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RobD1956
Avatar / PictureModerator
Registered: 11/22/08
Posts: 31
05/13/09 #2
First of all welcome to NOD we are glad you are here. Interferon/Riba treatments have yet to be proven as a carcinogen. But HCV is a known carcinogen it is not necessarily confined to your liver, but the liver is it’s primary target. There are many of us here that have HCC (liver cancer) from HCV. I myself have to be checked every six months. Like you I discovered I had the disease by donating blood to the Red Cross in the early 90’s. In your persuit for a reason I myself would pin the cancer on HCV. I hope this sheds a little light on your illness.__________________
Mod
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AZeeJensMom
Moderator
Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 94
05/14/09 #3
Hello RMG,Happy to hear you are in remission and Welcome to HCVets.

IFN treatment is a tough one, you sure aren’t alone on that.   As Rob mentions, many here have gone through the trials and tribulations of INF treatment.    I commend you for your efforts to tough it out.

Regarding the IFN leading to HCC, have not heard of this happening.   As Rob mentions, HepC would be the likely cause.    There has been recent buzz that HepC can lead to DM2 – Diabetes is an endocrine system  condition that has many residual affects on the body system as does HCV.

You didn’t mention if your Service Connected for HepC or not, and whether the cancer involved any of the lymph nodes in your neck.    If you are SC for the Hep, you could re-open the claim and add to it the tinnitus and ED.

On the thyroid issue, if there is some link between it and your Hep, this should be included in the claim.   There are many variables and directions to navigate these conditions to find out if there is some connection.

You probably aren’t going to get the same answer from different doctors at the VA, they all have their own rules of thought.   But, if you have a regular doctor who you see at the VA or, a private doctor, I would suggest you schedule an appt with them, taking in a list of questions you have and if possible, taking someone with you to the appt, a spouse, good friend, etc.
if you are comfortable with that.   Another set of ears is always helpful in these situations.

The great thing is you are in remission!   It seems like there are many issues on your plate, take each one a step at a time.

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to post them.
The best to you.

Another site you might explore is the NIH web-site….National Institute of Health.
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flipfarts
Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 19
05/14/09 #4
Gentlemen
Thank you for the great feed back. I served from 9/72 to 9/75 Army My HCV seems to be sly. I am a genotype 2b which is supposed to respond to treatment. I just found out last year I am in stage 1 cirrhosis. I complained to my primary care doctor about tinnitus, hearing loss, vision impairment, and the shrinkage of my genitals. I am impotent and have no sex drive at the age of 56. I believe these issues are symptoms of interferon/ribavirin treatments. I also believe I am over medicated. I have 13 active Rx every month. The worst med being Ritalin and Oxycontin. Currently I have been dealing with an attorney that says he will reopen my original claim and assist me at no cost. I have signed all the release of information papers. I would appreciate any help or advice you guys could share with me. I have learned from other veterans while on this journey. If you can help me please ask me direct questions. My short term memory is bad. My meds interfere with my thinking. I am in CA. My zip code is 92308. Thanks for the encouragement about my cancer. We all know surgery and synthroid doesn’t cure cancer.  It’s good to know there are other vets who can understand where I am coming from. All of you guys will be in my prayers. Please email me with any information you think I could use.
Thanks
RMG
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AZeeJensMom
Moderator
Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 94
05/14/09 #5
RMG….After I posted my message to you, my curiosity was peaked by your post and I was interested in seeing if there is some correlation between thyroid cancer, HepC and Interferon.

I did a quick Internet search, found some old studies, some more recent.   I wouldn’t write off the possibility of the relationship of the Interferon and the thyroid cancer.    Thyroid disease is an autoimmunity disease.    I did find some information that HCV can be the culprit to Thyroid disease/cancer.    My husband’s DM2 and Gastro both check his TSH – Thyroid Stimulating Hormone.    There must be some reason for this, so perhaps there is some connection of the HCV & Thyroid disease.

I’m not a doctor….I am a “want to know motivated type of person” who is the wife of a Veteran with HepC.    Someone else on the board may come by and be able to shed some additional information on this issue.

I went to the NIH site, the NCI site and also did a general internet search for thyroid cancer/disease and Interferon therapy.   I found articles on the MyThyroid.com site and a few others that may be worth looking at.   I am quite interested in this now and if you do come up with anything, please do share.

Each individuals response to disease, virus, treatment is different.   I myself have HepC antibodies but do not have Hepatitis C virus.   This was a big puzzle for us until a recent GI work-up I had and blood test to confirm the exposure occurred but the virus is not present.    According to my Gastro doc, this doesn’t happen very often and, in his years of practice, he has only seen this in less than a 1/2 dozen patients.

The symptoms you describe as related to IFN tx can be linked.   The brain fog and memory loss most definitely.  The cirrhosis is the natural progression of the HCV infection.   Complaining to your primary doctor isn’t going to be enough.  You are going to need to be certain those symptoms and complaints are in your medical records.    Get a complete copy of all of your medical records.   Look through them, if you find errors, ask for them to be corrected.   Of course, if your doctor didn’t actually post these issues into your medrecs, you can write them down and take it into your doctors office and give it to him/her at your appt.    Keep a copy of anything you give to anyone.    Best advice….Keep a copy and Get a copy.   Of everything.

If there are meds you are taking that are for the complaints you listed, that would be in the records and a shoe in.

Just a tad bit more of thought…..attorney’s do not work for free.    You more than likely have found an attorney who is working on a “contingency” basis.    Meaning:  he gets paid when you get paid.    If this feels comfortable to you, then go with it.   Brain fog, short term memory and multiple illness and medications can really interfere with your thought process.   This happened to my husband, sad to say, he has never been the same since that 1st shot of interferon.   It changed his life and mine too.
7 years later he was in the position of not being able to do the job he’d done for over 30 years because of all the residuals of HCV, the treatment, etc.

However…..on a positive note….had he not endured almost 3 years of IFN tx, he undoubtedly would have reached a point of cirrhosis of the liver much sooner than he has.    His 1st liver biopsy in 2001 he was a 3/4 in fibrosis so it wasn’t too far away.    He had another biopsy after the 1st tx, and he went to a 1/4.   That didn’t last too long, 2 years later he was back on tx, another biopsy, etc. and finally, when the tx for the HepC pushed him to a point of deciding whether it was quality or quantity of life he wanted, he went off tx….it wasn’t working, his numbers were not going down.    He is Geno 1a, the hardest to treat.    His most recent liver biopsy was in mid January 09….shows he his liver is into cirrohsis.

When my husband was on tx, he had a list a mile long of medications also.   He still is taking alot of meds, but the list isn’t nearly as long.

You never did say whether you are SC for the HepC or anything else.     Was your original claim denied?

Has your doctor ever tested your ammonia level?   My husband’s did and she found it was high, put him on Lactulose and I have noticed that although his thought process is not as sharp, it seems to be a little better, he is a bit more focused and has recently had more energy.    Anything but just sitting in a chair all day will seem like an improvement to me for him.   He is still very fatigued, sick and in pain most of the time, but with the Lactulose he seems to feel a little better.   I thought it was worth mentioning.    Interestingly enough, none of his private docs checked this, it was his VA doc who did.   And, that was only recent.

Keep us posted.
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